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0 pointslmm1y ago0 comments

> For better or for worse, the amendment does not make any exceptions for denying citizenship to persons born of late term pregnant women who just arrived on the shores.

"and subject to the jurisdiction thereof" could easily be read to exclude those who are born to people present unlawfully and/or in violation of their visa. I think it's pretty plausible that the Supreme Court might overturn Wong Kim Ark.

> Marking lawful citizens as enemy combatants for simply being born in the US sounds like a very bad idea to me, and should be to you too. Why would I not be a potential enemy combatant for making this comment on hacker news right now?

Welcome to how it's always been for anyone who didn't have citizenship. The "enemy combatant" concept is some tinpot dictator bullshit, but at this point it's been well established in the US and supported by both sides of the aisle, the Dems wouldn't have a leg to stand on in campaigning against it. Talking about applying it to "lawful citizens" is purely circular logic - Trump will take the position that they aren't and were never lawful citizens.

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Aloisius1y ago

The debates on the amendment make it clear that Congress believed the 14th extended to the children of outright criminals.

Indeed, one of the Senators (Cowan) against the amendment feared millions of invaders who settle as trespassers leading to a loss of control over immigration due to the amendment.

It is simply impossible to read the debate and argue that Congress' understanding of the amendment didn't include exactly the group people today are trying to exclude.

https://www.justfacts.com/document/1866_birthright_citizensh...

lmmOP1y ago

> the 14th extended to the children of outright criminals

A criminal is very much "subject to the jurisdiction of" the US, far more so than an illegal immigrant who if caught will likely not be imprisoned or even tried, but simply deported.

> It is simply impossible to read the debate and argue that Congress' understanding of the amendment didn't include exactly the group people today are trying to exclude.

What Congress believed at the time is not binding on today's courts if they don't want it to be, as the history of interpretation of many other parts of the constitution shows.

Dylan168071y ago

> A criminal is very much "subject to the jurisdiction of" the US, far more so than an illegal immigrant who if caught will likely not be imprisoned or even tried, but simply deported.

Deported using......jurisdiction?

You think if they do some big crime the US is going to ignore it and do nothing but give a referral because oops no jurisdiction?

This argument doesn't work.

2 more replies

Aloisius1y ago

I didn't say anything about the parents being imprisoned, tried or even caught.

Indeed, Senator Cowan feared "Gypsies" who "settle as trespassers wherever they go" and whose "cunning is of such a transcendent character that no skill can serve to correct it or punish it." He argued the amendment to make those born here citizens would prevent their removal, as a class.

He went beyond that of course. His diatribe includes floods of "Mongol race", Chinese, Australians and even cannibals.

Really, the arguments against jus soli today almost sound like they're channeling the man.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointslmm1y ago0 comments

> For better or for worse, the amendment does not make any exceptions for denying citizenship to persons born of late term pregnant women who just arrived on the shores.

0 comments

Aloisius1y ago

The debates on the amendment make it clear that Congress believed the 14th extended to the children of outright criminals.

Indeed, one of the Senators (Cowan) against the amendment feared millions of invaders who settle as trespassers leading to a loss of control over immigration due to the amendment.

It is simply impossible to read the debate and argue that Congress' understanding of the amendment didn't include exactly the group people today are trying to exclude.

https://www.justfacts.com/document/1866_birthright_citizensh...

lmmOP1y ago

> the 14th extended to the children of outright criminals

A criminal is very much "subject to the jurisdiction of" the US, far more so than an illegal immigrant who if caught will likely not be imprisoned or even tried, but simply deported.

> It is simply impossible to read the debate and argue that Congress' understanding of the amendment didn't include exactly the group people today are trying to exclude.

What Congress believed at the time is not binding on today's courts if they don't want it to be, as the history of interpretation of many other parts of the constitution shows.

Dylan168071y ago

> A criminal is very much "subject to the jurisdiction of" the US, far more so than an illegal immigrant who if caught will likely not be imprisoned or even tried, but simply deported.

Deported using......jurisdiction?

You think if they do some big crime the US is going to ignore it and do nothing but give a referral because oops no jurisdiction?

This argument doesn't work.

2 more replies

Aloisius1y ago

I didn't say anything about the parents being imprisoned, tried or even caught.

He went beyond that of course. His diatribe includes floods of "Mongol race", Chinese, Australians and even cannibals.

Really, the arguments against jus soli today almost sound like they're channeling the man.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse