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0 pointsbilekas1y ago0 comments

> “It’s also extremely hard to rally a big talented research team to charge a new hill in the fog together,” he added. “This is the key to driving progress forward.”

Well I think DeepSeek releasing it open source and on an MIT license will rally the big talent. The open sourcing of a new technology has always driven progress in the past.

The last paragraph too is where OpenAi seems to be focusing their efforts..

> we engage in countermeasures to protect our IP, including a careful process for which frontier capabilities to include in released models ..

> ... we are working closely with the US government to best protect the most capable models from efforts by adversaries and competitors to take US technology.

So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ?

0 comments

24 comments · 10 top-level

buyucu1y ago· 6 in thread

I'm willing to bet ''ban DeepSeek'' voices will start soon. Why compete, when you can just ban?

cmiles741y ago

They've started already, I've seen posts on LinkedIn implying or outright stating that DeepSeek is a national security risk (IMHO, LinkedIn being the social media outlet most corporate-sycophantic). I went ahead and just picked this one at random from my feed.

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kevinkeller_deepseek-privacy-...

4 more replies

zelphirkalt1y ago

Actually asking for banning DeepSeek would be the ultimate admit of defeat by ClosedAI.

1 more reply

vitaflo1y ago

All you would do by banning it is killing US progress in AI. The rest of the world is still going to be able to use DS. You're just giving the rest of the world a leg up.

TikTok is a consumption tool, DS is a productive one. They aren't the same.

1 more reply

Freedom21y ago

Competing is hard and expensive, whereas banning is for sure the faster way to make stock values go up and exec's total package as a result.

1 more reply

razster1y ago

The fact it is out and improving day by day. Unsloth.ai is on a roll with their advancements. If DeepSeek is banned hundreds more will popup and change the data ever so slightly to skirt the ban. Pandora's box exploded on this one.

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namuol1y ago

Already happening within tech company policy. Mostly as a security concern. Local or controlled hosting of the model is okay in theory based on this concern, but it taints everything regarding deepseek in effect.

zelphirkalt1y ago· 2 in thread

Actually the "our IP" argument is ridiculous. What they are doing is stealing data from all over the web, without people's consent for that data to be used in training ML models. If anything, then "Open"AI should be sued and forced to publish their whole product. The people should demand knowing exactly what is going on with their data.

Also still an unresolved issue is how they will ever comply with a deletion request, should any model output personal data of someone. They are heavily in a gray area, with regards to what should be allowed. If anything, they should really shut up now.

IshKebab1y ago

They can still have IP while using copyrighted training materials - the actual model source code.

But DeepSeek didn't use that presumably (since it's secret). They definitely can't argue that using copyrighted material for training is fine, but using output from other commercial models isn't. That's too inconsistent.

2 more replies

TZubiri1y ago

If there's any litigation, a counterclaim would be interesting. But DeepSeek would need to partner with parties that have been damaged by OpenAI's scraping.

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bangaladore1y ago· 2 in thread

> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ?

Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. There are many providers hosting the ~700B parameter version that aren't CCP aligned.

runako1y ago

I'm old enough to remember when the US government did something very similar. For years (decades?), we banned any implementation of public-key cryptography under the guise of the technology being akin to munitions.

People made shirts with printouts of the code to RSA under the heading "this shirt is a munition." Apparently such shirts are still for sale, even though they are not classified as munitions anymore.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...

2 more replies

seizethecheese1y ago

> Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone.

Like music? They banned napster

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emsign1y ago· 1 in thread

500 billion for a few US companies yet the Chinese will probably still be better for way less money. This might turn out to be a historical mistake of the new administration.

tw19841y ago

the biggest mistake was made 20 years by allowing China to join the WTO.

everything is already too late.

hujun1y ago· 1 in thread

or sold to US I could totally see this happening soon

trissi19961y ago

Why would they want to sell ?

1 more reply

cscurmudgeon1y ago· 1 in thread

The US doesn't need to ban DeepSeek from US

The US should only ban DeepSeek (and other Chinese companies) from accessing US frontier models.

tw19841y ago

> The US should only ban DeepSeek (and other Chinese companies) from accessing US frontier models.

The US should only ban DeepSeek (and other Chinese companies) from accessing US frontier models designed and trained by Chinese Americans.

fixed for you.

portaouflop1y ago· 1 in thread

TikTok is banned in the US?

bagels1y ago

Yes, it was removed from the app stores, and briefly, from the web.

1 more reply

petesergeant1y ago

> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok

The UAE (where I live, happily, and by choice), which desperately wants to be the center of the world in AI and is spending vast time and treasure to make it happen (they've even got their own excellent, government-funded foundation model), would _love_ this. Any attempt to ban DeepSeek in the US would be the most gigantic self-own. Combine that with no income tax, a fantastic standard of living, and a willingness to very easily give out visas to smart people from anywhere in the world, and I have to imagine it is one of several countries desperate for the US to do something so utterly stupid.

tdb78931y ago

The fact that they are still called "Open"AI adds such a delicious irony to this whole thing. I could not imagine a company I had less sympathy for in this situation.

boringg1y ago

Explain to me how one ban's opensource? That concept is foreign to me.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

24 comments · 10 top-level

buyucu1y ago· 6 in thread

I'm willing to bet ''ban DeepSeek'' voices will start soon. Why compete, when you can just ban?

cmiles741y ago

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/kevinkeller_deepseek-privacy-...

4 more replies

zelphirkalt1y ago

Actually asking for banning DeepSeek would be the ultimate admit of defeat by ClosedAI.

1 more reply

vitaflo1y ago

All you would do by banning it is killing US progress in AI. The rest of the world is still going to be able to use DS. You're just giving the rest of the world a leg up.

TikTok is a consumption tool, DS is a productive one. They aren't the same.

1 more reply

Freedom21y ago

Competing is hard and expensive, whereas banning is for sure the faster way to make stock values go up and exec's total package as a result.

1 more reply

razster1y ago

1 more reply

namuol1y ago

zelphirkalt1y ago· 2 in thread

IshKebab1y ago

They can still have IP while using copyrighted training materials - the actual model source code.

2 more replies

TZubiri1y ago

If there's any litigation, a counterclaim would be interesting. But DeepSeek would need to partner with parties that have been damaged by OpenAI's scraping.

1 more reply

bangaladore1y ago· 2 in thread

> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok was now that a precedent has been set ?

Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone. There are many providers hosting the ~700B parameter version that aren't CCP aligned.

runako1y ago

People made shirts with printouts of the code to RSA under the heading "this shirt is a munition." Apparently such shirts are still for sale, even though they are not classified as munitions anymore.

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Export_of_cryptography_from_th...

2 more replies

seizethecheese1y ago

> Can't really ban what can be downloaded for free and hosted by anyone.

Like music? They banned napster

2 more replies

emsign1y ago· 1 in thread

500 billion for a few US companies yet the Chinese will probably still be better for way less money. This might turn out to be a historical mistake of the new administration.

tw19841y ago

the biggest mistake was made 20 years by allowing China to join the WTO.

everything is already too late.

hujun1y ago· 1 in thread

or sold to US I could totally see this happening soon

trissi19961y ago

Why would they want to sell ?

1 more reply

cscurmudgeon1y ago· 1 in thread

The US doesn't need to ban DeepSeek from US

The US should only ban DeepSeek (and other Chinese companies) from accessing US frontier models.

tw19841y ago

> The US should only ban DeepSeek (and other Chinese companies) from accessing US frontier models.

The US should only ban DeepSeek (and other Chinese companies) from accessing US frontier models designed and trained by Chinese Americans.

fixed for you.

portaouflop1y ago· 1 in thread

TikTok is banned in the US?

bagels1y ago

Yes, it was removed from the app stores, and briefly, from the web.

1 more reply

petesergeant1y ago

> So they'll go for getting DeepSeek banned like TikTok

tdb78931y ago

The fact that they are still called "Open"AI adds such a delicious irony to this whole thing. I could not imagine a company I had less sympathy for in this situation.

boringg1y ago

Explain to me how one ban's opensource? That concept is foreign to me.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse