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0 pointsmsully43211y ago0 comments

Yeah, setenv should probably just not exist, and environment variables should be only set when spawning new processes.

0 comments

The problem is that applications sometimes need to set environment variables which will be read by libraries in the same process. This is safe to do during startup, but at no later times.

Ideally all libraries which use environment variables should have APIs allowing you to override the env variables without calling setenv(), but that isn't always the case.

kelnos1y ago

> The problem is that applications sometimes need to set environment variables which will be read by libraries in the same process. This is safe to do during startup, but at no later times.

No, the problem is that libraries try to do this at all. Libraries should just have those APIs you mention, and not touch env vars, period. If you, the library user, really want to use env vars for those settings, you can getenv() them yourself and pass them to the library's APIs.

Obviously we can't change history; there are libraries that do this anyway. But we should encourage library authors to (in the future) pretend that env vars don't exist.

plorkyeran1y ago

The place where it makes sense for a library to read environment variables is where the program is not written to use that specific library. For example, I can link a program whose author has never heard of TCMalloc against TCMalloc rather than the system malloc, and then configure TCMalloc via environment variables. This does not require modifying a single line of code, while manually forwarding configuration onto the allocator would. Another common example is configuring sanitizers. Not having to do anything other than pass another command-line switch to the compiler is one of the things that makes them really painless to use.

I do think you'd be hard-pressed to find a situation where a program calling setenv() to configure a library actually makes sense. It's a pretty strong sign that someone made a bad decision. People will, however, make mistakes in API design.

PaulDavisThe1st1y ago

If env vars don't exist, that makes it much harder (and more likely impossible) for users to modify library/application behavior at run time.

I agree with you that it would be much better if, when libA needs to set behavio Foo in libB, it called libB:setBehavior (Foo) rather than setenv ("LibBehavior", "Foo")

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

docandrew1y ago

I’d argue that libraries shouldn’t read environment variables at all. They’re passed on the initial program stack and look just like stack vars, so the issue here is essentially the same as taking the address of a stack variable and misusing it.

Just like a library wouldn’t try to use argv directly, it shouldn’t use envp either (even if done via getenv/setenv)

msully4321OP1y ago

Yeah, the cows have certainly gotten out already.

bashkiddie1y ago

I guess the usecase is

    dlopen()

which passes on your environment. If you want to load libpam-keberos and pass

    DEBUG=verbose

you will need to setenv() your own environment.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

plorkyeran1y ago

The problem is that applications sometimes need to set environment variables which will be read by libraries in the same process. This is safe to do during startup, but at no later times.

Ideally all libraries which use environment variables should have APIs allowing you to override the env variables without calling setenv(), but that isn't always the case.

kelnos1y ago

> The problem is that applications sometimes need to set environment variables which will be read by libraries in the same process. This is safe to do during startup, but at no later times.

Obviously we can't change history; there are libraries that do this anyway. But we should encourage library authors to (in the future) pretend that env vars don't exist.

plorkyeran1y ago

PaulDavisThe1st1y ago

If env vars don't exist, that makes it much harder (and more likely impossible) for users to modify library/application behavior at run time.

I agree with you that it would be much better if, when libA needs to set behavio Foo in libB, it called libB:setBehavior (Foo) rather than setenv ("LibBehavior", "Foo")

But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

docandrew1y ago

Just like a library wouldn’t try to use argv directly, it shouldn’t use envp either (even if done via getenv/setenv)

msully4321OP1y ago

Yeah, the cows have certainly gotten out already.

bashkiddie1y ago

I guess the usecase is

    dlopen()

which passes on your environment. If you want to load libpam-keberos and pass

    DEBUG=verbose

you will need to setenv() your own environment.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse