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0 pointsWaterluvian1y ago0 comments

This is the fundamental problem with American democracy and democracies all over the world.

It only works if the voters are well informed, educated, and generally competent. Otherwise it’s just a manipulation game where someone can lie and lie and lie and be elected president. And at that late stage phase of democracy, who gets to manipulate these people better is who holds power.

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6 comments · 3 top-level

GenerocUsername1y ago· 3 in thread

I assume you are speaking about establishment politicians over the last 40-2000 years, but I suspect you are actually miming talking points about manipulation aimed at 1 very recent election where the established propaganda cycle failed to manipulate enough people and a different brand of manipulation brought in a different set of manipulators. Evidence of your own manipulated belief structures going without serious enough introspection to be held as a competent free agent

saxonww1y ago

Allegedly, the biggest concern this time around was the economy. Millions of people complaining about inflation and the cost of goods voted for a guy promising to raise tariffs, and a party that historically caters to big business. The same big business that has moved a lot of jobs overseas, and has lobbied to relax restrictions on visas to hire more foreign workers for onshore jobs.

To me, this looks a lot like people voting against their own interests. I think that when people vote against their own interests, it's usually because they don't understand what they're voting for, i.e. it's an education issue. And it's not surprising that other people would be perplexed and frustrated by this.

But maybe I've just been misled by the wrong propaganda. I guess we'll find out.

YZF1y ago

Are you trying to argue that (many) democrats and republicans voters in the recent elections were not generally manipulated by their respective sides? I don't think this holds water.

Examples could be democrats control over Biden's health messaging or republicans repeating the message that the democrats are stealing the elections or democrat's messaging about if their side loses it's the end of democracy or republicans messaging about immigration, crime etc. Generally engaging at a shallow level with the goal of influencing people's emotions.

I don't think this is a 40-2000 years phenomena. It's certainly become a lot worse since Trump ran for president the first time. I remember turning on TV in my hotel room during a visit to the US maybe 8 years ago and switching between CNN and Fox, each of these channels were basically about endless bashing of the opposite side. I wouldn't call the content anything other than brainwashing and propaganda. CNN didn't use to be like that. With social media since every user gets their own view we don't even know what the "hidden hand" is pushing. It's much worse and a lot more dangerous.

GenerocUsername1y ago

No my point was that both sides are frequently manipulated, but I see comments on the Internet EVERY DAY to the effect of 'the other side is being manipulated', apparently oblivious to their own manipulated opinions.

And CNN has ALWAYS been a propaganda wing, they just didn't have a serious competitor during the era when both parties were controlled by the same group. (Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama)

134151y ago

That shouldn't be a problem, though. All it takes is to make sure that voters are informed, educated, and generally competent.

On a side note, the same holds for market economy. Markets only work if consumers are informed, educated, and generally competent.

eastbound1y ago

Isn’t that the premise of the Enlightenment? That’s everyone will be well educated, or, if they’re not, at least they were the ones in control of their destiny?

i.e. “You crazy, translating the bible to the plebs? What happens if stupid people get to choose for themselves?”

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