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0 pointsJumpCrisscross1y ago0 comments

> Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic

No. About 20% of Americans support Hamas; 4% the October 7th attack [1]. It’s an extreme minority.

People are sympathetic to Palestinians. Not Hamas. The best way for the foreign pro-Palestinian movement to fuck this up for Palestine is to falsely equate Palestinians with Hamas.

Going back to the top point: Hamas hasn’t succeeded. Gaza’s occupation looks like it will be far more draconian than it was a few years ago, with the strip separated by security cordons all controlled by Israel.

> everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump

Trump's peace plan [2] is anathema to everything Hamas fought for. All the way to recognising anexations of currently-Palestinian territory.

[1] https://www.pewresearch.org/2024/03/21/majority-in-u-s-say-i...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trump_peace_plan#Key_concepts_...

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kelthuzad1y ago

>No. About 20% of Americans support Hamas; 4% the October 7th attack [1]. It’s an extreme minority.

Americans are the most propagandized people on the planet, even if they supported the resistance most of them wouldn't publicly admit that. American discourse, despite it's "freedom of speech" mantra, has a history of mccarthyist silencing to shut down debate, that's why certain ideas can't always be publicly expressed or one's affiliation revealed.

>Going back to the top point: Hamas hasn’t succeeded. Gaza’s occupation looks like it will be far more draconian than it was a few years ago, with the strip separated by security cordons all controlled by Israel.

Hamas has succeeded in their primary goal which was reminding the world that they still exist[1] and they won't let any normalization happen without a Palestinian state. They successfully derailed any normalization efforts. Another victory is that, for the first time ever, people, even ordinary americans, openly recognizing them as the resistance and showing support on social media where some of those tweets receive 150-250k+ likes, which was impossible before the genocide. In contrast to before where people always had to hide their support in order to prevent being accused with the common smears by zionists who wanted to shut down debate and suppress any information that would reveal that its the zionists who have a century long history of zionist-terrorism[2] and that the natives have a right to resist colonization without being demonized for it.

>Trump's peace plan [2] is anathema to everything Hamas fought for. All the way to recognising anexations of currently-Palestinian territory.

Trump waffles a lot to appease his donors, what his real opinion or plan is can be discovered by his actions in due time. Many israelis were disappointed by his ceasefire push and said that this deal was "forced upon israel".

Edit: the zionist brigade is quick, not even 10 seconds after posting this reply it already had a downvote lol.

[1] https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/hamas-has-another-sinw...

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20231029055310/ojp.gov/ncjrs/vir...

JumpCrisscrossOP1y ago

> Americans are the most propagandized people on the planet

So we've moved the goalpost from everyone supports Hamas to everyone secretly supports Hamas, they just won't say it, but I know it's the case regardless?

> Hamas has succeeded in their primary goal which was reminding the world that they still exist

Yes, when they went into this war and when they rejected the deal in May I'm sure they were thinking that the tens of thousands of lives lost and hundreds of thousands--if not millions--scarred for life, with the prospect of America recognising Israeli anexations in the West Bank on the horizon, was worth a few more hits on their Wikipedia page.

I suppose we can't know what Hamas' goals are right now. But Sinwar's goals were clear. And this war has been a total failure per his goals.

> what his real opinion or plan is can be discovered by his actions in due time

No. But his track record can be scrutinised. That said, if people believing the guy who recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital, wants to reinstate "maximum pressure" on Iran and hangs out with this guy [1] thinks a self-governing Palestine is the way to go, and that results in a longer cease fire, sure. I'm all for it.

> Many israelis were disappointed by his ceasefire push and said that this deal was "forced upon israel"

I know some pretty forcefully pro-Israel Israelis. They're all in favour of this plan because it (a) returns hostages, (b) gives Israel a chance to recoup and pot some shots with the Houthis and (c) is a temporary cease-fire.

(Not saying some weren't disappointed. If he were still alive, Sinwar would probably reject it. But expecting zero crazies in any population is, well, crazy.)

> the zionist brigade is quick, not even 10 seconds after posting this reply it already had a downvote

One, it's an Israel-Palestine thread. Everyone is going to get downvoted.

Two, "Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading" [2].

[1] https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20250111-musk-calls-for-tr...

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

kelthuzad1y ago

>So we've moved the goalpost from everyone supports Hamas to everyone secretly supports Hamas, they just won't say it, but I know it's the case regardless?

No I never claimed such a thing but I've just put your statistics in context and provided some explanation. You're shadowboxing with your antagonistic rhetoric.

>Yes, when they went into this war and when they rejected the deal in May I'm sure they were thinking that the tens of thousands of lives lost and hundreds of thousands--if not millions--scarred for life, with the prospect of America recognising Israeli anexations in the West Bank on the horizon, was worth a few more hits on their Wikipedia page.

Another needlessly quarrelsome and misguided framing. Most of the world is now aware and understands the Palestinian struggle and that's not just "a few more hits on their Wikipedia page" but e.g. Ireland, a european nation, among many others, joining South Africa’s Genocide Case Against Israel and Israel closing its dublin embassy. And there are many more substantial developments in that regard, so downplaying that in such a manner is just weird.

>No. But his track record can be scrutinised. That said, if people believing the guy who recognised Jerusalem as Israel's capital, wants to reinstate "maximum pressure" on Iran and hangs out with this guy [1] thinks a self-governing Palestine is the way to go, and that results in a longer cease fire, sure. I'm all for it.

Trump is a businessman in nature so he will act in a manner that is consistent with that and not upsetting his donor base too much, until something happens that disturbs that calculus. Trump is not ideologically driven, so if the price of supporting Israel fundamentally changes, due to unforeseen change, he will act adequately according to his own interests.

>I know some pretty forcefully pro-Israel Israelis. They're all in favour of this plan because it (a) returns hostages, (b) gives Israel a chance to recoup and pot some shots with the Houthis and (c) is a temporary cease-fire.

That could very well be, I am simply judging by the extreme infighting between hardcore zionists and the statements and sentiments of popular israeli news channels.

[1] https://www.nytimes.com/2025/01/07/world/europe/ireland-icj-...

[2] https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-833718

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