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0 pointslispm1y ago0 comments

> not to include type declarations because they can lead to a messy middle ground?

What? Type declarations in CL (which came from prior Lisp dialects) were added, so that optimizing Lisp compilers can use those to create fast machine code on typical CPUs (various CISC and RISC processors). Several optimizing compilers have been written, taking advantage of that feature. The compiler of SBCL would be an example. SBCL (and CMUCL before that) also uses type declarations as assertions. So, both the SBCL runtime and the SBCL compiler use type declarations.

> why then it can't be 'hosted' like Clojure?

ABCL does not exist?

https://abcl.org

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draven1y ago

> ABCL does not exist?

I've only played with Clojure (not used it professionally, I'm working with Scala) but Clojure interop with Java is way better than what I can see here: https://abcl.org/doc/abcl-user.html The way it's integrated with the host platform makes it better for most use cases IMHO.

lispmOP1y ago

> The way it's integrated with the host platform makes it better for most use cases IMHO.

That may be. ABCL is running on the host system and can reuse it, but it aims to be a full implementation of Common Lisp, not a blend of a subset of Lisp plus the host runtime. For example one would expect the full Common Lisp numerics.

One of its purposes is to be able to run portable Common Lisp code on the JVM. Like Maxima or like bootstrapping the SBCL system.

There is a bit more about the interop in the repository and in the manual:

https://abcl.org/releases/1.9.2/abcl-1.9.2.pdf

iLemming1y ago

I didn't say "type declarations can lead to a messy middle ground in Common Lisp" - obviously they exist there for a reason, but, maybe they DON'T exist in Clojure, also for good reasons, no?

ABCL does exist, sure, and there's also LCL for Lua. Yet, 8 out of 10 developers today, for whatever reasons would probably use Fennel to write Lispy-code to target Lua and probably more devs would choose Clojure (not ABCL) to target JVM. That doesn't make either Fennel nor Clojure "far superior" than Common Lisp and vice-versa.

lispmOP1y ago

> I didn't say "type declarations can lead to a messy middle ground in Common Lisp" - obviously they exist there for a reason, but, maybe they DON'T exist in Clojure, also for good reasons, no?

What were those reasons?

> ABCL does exist, sure,

Would that count as a hosted implementation?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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draven1y ago

> ABCL does not exist?

lispmOP1y ago

> The way it's integrated with the host platform makes it better for most use cases IMHO.

One of its purposes is to be able to run portable Common Lisp code on the JVM. Like Maxima or like bootstrapping the SBCL system.

There is a bit more about the interop in the repository and in the manual:

https://abcl.org/releases/1.9.2/abcl-1.9.2.pdf

iLemming1y ago

I didn't say "type declarations can lead to a messy middle ground in Common Lisp" - obviously they exist there for a reason, but, maybe they DON'T exist in Clojure, also for good reasons, no?

lispmOP1y ago

> I didn't say "type declarations can lead to a messy middle ground in Common Lisp" - obviously they exist there for a reason, but, maybe they DON'T exist in Clojure, also for good reasons, no?

What were those reasons?

> ABCL does exist, sure,

Would that count as a hosted implementation?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse