I can understand those very human feelings. But the state justice system should not be retributive, no matter how much victims want it to be.
It should focus on protection (keeping criminals off the streets and the rest of us safe), deterrence, rehabilitation, and restitution. And its constraints should be fairness, transparency, and speed/efficiency.
18 U.S. Code § 3582 - Imposition of a sentence of imprisonment....
(a)Factors To Be Considered in Imposing a Term of Imprisonment.— The court, in determining whether to impose a term of imprisonment, and, if a term of imprisonment is to be imposed, in determining the length of the term, shall consider the factors set forth in section 3553(a) to the extent that they are applicable, recognizing that imprisonment is not an appropriate means of promoting correction and rehabilitation
Of course, people seem to prefer inhumane, brutal conditions, regardless of the impact.
From Plato to the Tao, Christianity and Buddhism, Reverend King and Gandhi, most careful thinkers about ethics, philosophy, and government over thousands of years have come to the same conclusion. The purposes of punishment are to remove a dangerous person from circulation, to make amends to victims, and to deter other potential offenders. Revenge does not enter into it.
Replies here are talking about how good revenge feels, and threatening mob violence if revenge isn’t granted, but consider that those responses are in a context where there is little justice already. We know in our society that injustice is not often punished, and that revenge (e.g., shooting a healthcare CEO) feels great. That is further proof of the importance of justice, not an argument for retribution.
the actual data on this refutes that. rehabilitation focused countries overhelmingly have less recidivism.
increasing access and quality of education, early intervention like head start, wicc and other "wellfare" programs as well as free healthcare are much more likely to reduce crime rates by a significant amount.
And that fact--constant threat/change of power--makes the following difficult:
- Having an idea of societal benefit or justice that does not align with a person's feelings (leader of the ruling party)
- Owning land or real property with conveniences like electricity or water - your territory is always under threat and unless you have large numbers of allies you will eventually get swallowed or forced to obey directives of the ruling party.
Furthermore:
- Having large numbers of allies, or being part of or strongly affiliated with the ruling entity just puts you in the same situation as ruling entity which is causing the first 2 things so it can survive.
Perhaps you're looking for a form of government other than democracy?
Remember, prison guards get special bonus' for managing inmates that make the prison money. Now imagine that you are constitutionally a slave (according to the Thirteenth Amendment) and that your prison guard's bonus is tied to your work. You don't get to say no to extra shifts. You don't get to take sick days. You don't get to stop the line (for those making physical products). You don't get to challenge the safety of your workstation (for those making physical products).
I'm not saying these programs shouldn't exist, but you need actual safeguards to prevent the current rampant abuse of prisoners (at least on the UNICOR side). Guards should never be 'special UNICOR employees' tied to the program (they really start to see inmates as slaves, their job only exists as long as their facility's UNICOR program is 'successful') and should never have bonus' tied to inmate work output. Currently both of these things occur.
This means that someone could be sentenced to slavery or indentured servitude. Federal prisons require able inmates to work; this is a form of indentured servitude, but it does not necessarily extend to state prisons (or municipal jails).
Slaves are property of others (until their death or a decision by their owner to free them), and can be traded or sold. Indentured servants are engaged for a specified period of time, usually to one specific employer.
That is chattel slavery. There are other forms of slavery, indentured servitude being one of them. De facto slavery is the term of art for what is going on here.
Or maybe your cell/tier gets extra shakedowns, and it's made known it's because you made a guard mad, you are going to get beat down. Based on your work performance. What would that be called?
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/rcna185537
should not have their salary and/or bonus' based in anyway on the labor of the people they guard.
I would hope that society would rather me work and pay taxes, offsetting the cost of keeping me here, and giving me hope, responsibilities, discipline and a reason to continue making good life decisions when I am released.
95+% of those incarcerated are getting released one day.. People who have nothing to lose, no sense of self worth, or any feelings of identity with the rest of society are likely not people you want moving in next door to you.
I might be in prison but I lead a team of developers and contribute to open source regularly. I found my passion and I am now a contributing, tax paying member of society and no longer identify with the prison subculture at all.
It's difficult to see how this outcome could be viewed in any way as negative. I know that I made poor decisions, and I am not proud of them, or who I was at the time at all. I wanted to change my life and Maine gave me an opportunity to do that through hard work and I am extremely grateful for it.
I guess what I mean is, they can't end up squeezing prisoners any more than they already are: in many places 8 hour prison jobs paying less than 50 cents a day, when a phone call costs $3.00+ an hour and a single ramen noodle costs $2.00+.
That stuff significantly contributes to the prison mentality and group-think mindset of 'the authorities are your enemy'. Even if you don't come in with that mentality, after being surrounded by it in conditions like that, you'll very likely be brainwashed by the time you leave and the cycle unfortunately begins.
That sounds like most jobs. Or similar to monetary policy to increase unemployment to drive wages down.
And from these fair wages, deduct the rent of an average single-bedroom apartment.
I was writing code in jail, but they wouldn't allow any computer books in. An elderly nun bought and smuggled "C# in a Weekend" into the jail for me so I could teach coding.
This wouldn't bother me if the USA had universal basic income, public healthcare, free university education, and lower homeless rates.
So sad that I don't see just one of those happening in America let alone all
real
edit Walmart uses prison labor to assemble bicycles for kids.. source: eyewitness at a store in California
I don't want prisoners to be eligible for any jobs. They distort market wages heavily and take away jobs that other, more deserving, individuals could have. If you want to argue that they should be job eligible, then they should just be free in the first place at that point.
Call me crazy, but the golden rule should be applied to all people. “Do to others what you would have them do to you”
I believe that if someone needs to be separated from others because they are dangerous or insane, the government should be obligated to say “this is what I would want done to me”, and treat them as such the entire time. Raw Punishment is asinine and insane, especially when the average person doesn’t even believe politicians who make the law are the most virtuous citizens.
