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0 pointspphysch1y ago0 comments

To what extent is repeated mass-murder of civilians, total destruction of healthcare and education systems, etc. part of the "moral gray area"? That's just not a serious argument.

You can be pro-Israel without pretending to hold humanist values and so on.

0 comments

dralley1y ago

If you have a military enemy that blatantly hides itself within civilian areas and builds its underground infrastructure underneath civilian infrastructure, and that military enemy kills 1200 of your citizens in an attack, that creates a fair bit of moral ambiguity.

pazimzadeh1y ago

You would start by not sending them money. Unless of course you needed a justification for your political/expansionist goals.

https://archive.ph/2023.10.14-033824/https://www.haaretz.com...

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/hamas-israels-own-creation/

Anyway, the idea of embedding military targets within civilian populations is also not exclusive to one side:

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-...

Neither is the use of terror:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

https://web.archive.org/web/20121226235336/http://www.foreig...

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justifica...

https://www.thetorah.com/article/israels-incomplete-conquest...

ArtixFox1y ago

sooo israel should use time travel? the situation right now is a fucked up war between two bloodthirsty groups. I dont think this is the right time to think of inventing time machines...

1 more reply

pphyschOP1y ago

Evidence-free allegations of "human shields" is not an excuse to repeatedly commit mass murder.

Israel has already executed a proportional response to Oct 7, at least 100 times over. The extra 99+ times represent unprovoked war crimes.

dralley1y ago

That... is not how wars work. Proportional response is not a requirement.

pphyschOP1y ago

Evidence-free allegations of "human shields" is not an excuse to repeatedly commit mass murder.

Israel has already executed a proportional response to Oct 7, at least 100 times over. The additional 99+ times represent indefensible war crimes.

Aeolun1y ago

I think by the time you’ve worked your way through more dead children than the entirety of your civilian casualties, I think you’ve lost all pretence at the moral high ground.

kombine1y ago

Do you know where the ministry of defense is located in Tel-Aviv? Right next to its biggest shopping mall, inside of which at any point you will find dozens of young soldiers wandering around in their military uniforms with automatic rifles hanging over the shoulders. I am saying this because I have been to this shopping mall many times. According to Israel's own doctrine that makes this shopping mall a legit military target, which, of course, is total bullshit. Just like the old and tired argument about "human shields" and "terrorists embedding themselves among civilians".

edanm1y ago

The argument isn't that Hamas put their HQ next to civilians. It's that they store their munitions and shoot rockets out of schools. Israel's military HQ (not the ministry of defense), which is indeed located in Tel Aviv - Yafo, is not where tanks will be rolling out of.

Nor does Israel build underground bunkers or areas to shoot rockets out of underneath civilian buildings.

ks20481y ago

Imagine the reaction to Palestinians blowing up a residential Israeli apartment building with hundreds of civilians inside and justifying it by saying they wanted to kill an IDF member inside.

shiroiushi1y ago

If the IDF member is shooting at them from the apartment building, then it becomes a valid military target. This is very clearly spelled out in the Geneva conventions.

1 more reply

guappa1y ago

> If you have a military enemy that blatantly hides itself within civilian areas

And if you don't just claim that you do anyway and keep bombing hospitals.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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dralley1y ago

pazimzadeh1y ago

You would start by not sending them money. Unless of course you needed a justification for your political/expansionist goals.

https://archive.ph/2023.10.14-033824/https://www.haaretz.com...

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/hamas-israels-own-creation/

Anyway, the idea of embedding military targets within civilian populations is also not exclusive to one side:

https://www.haaretz.com/2012-06-09/ty-article/.premium/does-...

Neither is the use of terror:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

https://web.archive.org/web/20121226235336/http://www.foreig...

https://www.ohchr.org/en/press-releases/2019/02/no-justifica...

https://www.thetorah.com/article/israels-incomplete-conquest...

ArtixFox1y ago

sooo israel should use time travel? the situation right now is a fucked up war between two bloodthirsty groups. I dont think this is the right time to think of inventing time machines...

1 more reply

pphyschOP1y ago

Evidence-free allegations of "human shields" is not an excuse to repeatedly commit mass murder.

Israel has already executed a proportional response to Oct 7, at least 100 times over. The extra 99+ times represent unprovoked war crimes.

dralley1y ago

That... is not how wars work. Proportional response is not a requirement.

pphyschOP1y ago

Evidence-free allegations of "human shields" is not an excuse to repeatedly commit mass murder.

Israel has already executed a proportional response to Oct 7, at least 100 times over. The additional 99+ times represent indefensible war crimes.

Aeolun1y ago

I think by the time you’ve worked your way through more dead children than the entirety of your civilian casualties, I think you’ve lost all pretence at the moral high ground.

kombine1y ago

edanm1y ago

Nor does Israel build underground bunkers or areas to shoot rockets out of underneath civilian buildings.

ks20481y ago

Imagine the reaction to Palestinians blowing up a residential Israeli apartment building with hundreds of civilians inside and justifying it by saying they wanted to kill an IDF member inside.

shiroiushi1y ago

If the IDF member is shooting at them from the apartment building, then it becomes a valid military target. This is very clearly spelled out in the Geneva conventions.

1 more reply

guappa1y ago

> If you have a military enemy that blatantly hides itself within civilian areas

And if you don't just claim that you do anyway and keep bombing hospitals.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse