That’s what is at the heart of it.
> People will bring up Russia out of nowhere just to point out that it’s not any worse than the US.
Like most people who yell “whataboutism” as if it is an argument you don’t make the effort to parse the salient commonality between these two countries: they both invade places.
Being worse or better in some greater picture has got nothing to do with it.
The reason they need to keep doing that is because it seems necessary to counter/deflate the relentless "hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hyprocrisy" tide of thinking that tends to dominate what passes for discussion on the topic (backed by a lot of broken or distorted narratives about what actually did happen).
And also, because in fact there are substantial differences between the current aggression in Ukraine and what the US has done in most of it recent adventures (the Iraq invasion the one notable exception). So while there are commonalities between what these countries do, by and large they really aren't that "salient". To suggest that they are is, well, whataboutism.
I understand if you think it’s tedious to bring up America’s war efforts on tangentially related topics. There’s a time and place for everything. I used a more subtle hint in my first comment on this submission[1] while also addressing Stoicism (or stoicism). But I didn’t like when someone was downvoted for simply saying that going into self-made conflicts on the other side of the world might make someone question if the team they were fighting for had righteous reasons to fight.
> They don't "yell" whataboutism, they kindly point it out in context.
:)
Since you refer to them and not you I can say that this point (non-argument) is brought up to shut down the conversation since whataboutism is (in their minds) basically a fallacy.
It’s not “kind” but so are non of the conversation points on such a topic. So that’s whatever.
> And they already know that the US invades places, and have fully "parsed the salient commonality" that you seem to think is so elusive to them.
No one would presume that people have been living under a rock for half a century or so. That would be daft. Everyone knows that the US invades places. And plenty of people think that’s either good or that it’s bad but it was done with good intentions, so therefore no one is to blame.
> The reason they need to keep doing that is because it seems necessary to counter/deflate the relentless "hypocrisy, hypocrisy, hyprocrisy" tide of thinking that tends to dominate what passes for discussion on the topic
Counter it with what?
Your “deflate” is quite on point. Why have an argument when you can do a whataboutism-deflate? Then you don’t need to provide any arguments.
But then the other thread participants need to be on board with the thinking that it’s a slam-dunk. Which wasn’t the case this time.
> (backed by a lot of broken or distorted narratives about what actually did happen).
With that? It’s actually different?
> And also, because in fact there are substantial differences between the current aggression in Ukraine and what the US has done in most of it recent adventures (the Iraq invasion the one notable exception). So while there are commonalities between what these countries do, by and large they really aren't that "salient". To suggest that they are is, well, whataboutism.
See the original comment:[2]
> > What scientists call the “are we the baddies?-syndrome”
It’s never quite the same when the aggressor is “us” (the US or whatever else). Then any such comparison is obviously wrong and not nuanced.
[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41724980
[2]: Which is from a skit, probably not a researched symptom. Right?
I think not. And in particular, I find the the position that "hypocrisy, or rather weakly supported insinuations of hypocrisy, in regard to a certain evil is a vastly more vital and pressing topic than the actual evil happening on the ground itself" (to sum up these discussions in a nutshell) to be especially non-worthy of protracted discussion and "nuanced" debate.
God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, such as debates and counter-debates about whataboutism on HN.
