My guess is that a Polymer update made Youtube slower for everyone, but SpiderMonkey isn't particularly great at the kind of excess operations that have been added. Firefox in particular seems to suffer from complete UI freezes whereas Chromium browsers seem to just have slow tabs when the browser is overwhelmed.
While I certainly wouldn't be surprised if this is part of an anti-adblocker mechanism, not every slowdown on Google's websites is done out of malice. Some of it is just caused by bugs.
(Obviously, they know about Firefox, they've developed for it since it was available, and they've even been funding it.)
If the EU was serious about privacy they'd fully fund Firefox.
Wish that were true. The world would be a much less buggy place.
I just can't think of any other reason why they're both so infamously bad.
If the site works for the 95% of ad dollars who use Chrome on their phones, it works as intended.
On an only-slightly-related note, if anyone knows how to use the new firefox profiler when there is no internet access, please point me at it.
its doing such fun things as patching tons of standard js methods (.append() .appendChild() etc) for no reason other than maybe fighting adblockers?
When debugging own scripts/extensions running on YT every other call to standard function ends up calling some proxy in desktop_polymer.js
seems monopolistic. what's goin on with peertube and rumble these days
Is it any surprise that maintaining support for a browser that delivers less than a percent of the total users is deprioritized or just forgotten about?
If they're inadvertently doing it because firefox is so insignificant as not to be worth thinking about, that's an argument for Chrome to be severed from google.
I probably have ADHD. I rarely completed any side projects. I'm anxious most if the time, biting my fingers all the time, a habit I formed before I reached teenage. Having access to the modern Internet makes everything above worse, a lot worse. Yes they also introduced a lot of ineresting things to me, but there are endless amount of interesting things in the world and I need to focus on a couple of them to get a deeper understanding. Reading new contents every day is my escape, not my medicine.
Maybe I should just block myself from the Internet. I taught myself Foxbase and Foxpro back in the 90s without the Internet. I taught myself C++ in 2012 without the modern Internet (SO was the only source I inquired and the experience was bad). If I really want to achieve something meaningful in the rest of my life, which is about 3 to 4 decades based on the mortality curve, I probably should just plug off from the internet.
But how do I do that? Apparently Internet is essential nowadays for day to day chores, and my family absoutely needs a high speed Internet. How can I go back to the cave? I don't have enough will power to do that.
You could for example block reddit from 0800 to 1900 but still open individual posts you found while using a search engine. For me (I have ADHD, but I don't think that makes the difference in this case) that's the perfect balance between usability and avoiding endless scrolling.
I use this in coding. Just do this one function then you can do whatever. Most of the time I won't go back to procrastinating, but end up spending an hour or so working on the project.
I also think the opposite is true. If you try to force yourself to work many hours per day on side projects by disabling the internet or netflix etc. you will burn out.
The internet and the variety of content and dopamine sources are horrible for some people who have ADHD, myself included. So much time wasted last decade going down the rabbithole on Youtube, Wikipedia, video games, etc. with deep regrets of missing out on more important things in life like networking, socializing, trying new things, etc. Not sure if you feel that way as well.
Even with long-term medication (Vyvanse)- which I have my own personal reservations about if they really "work" or not - I still struggle with this daily.
If you're looking/asking for advice - for me, I've found that taking drastic, meaningful actions help. "ripping the bandaid off", if you're familiar with that phrase.
I've unplugged my gaming PC, threw the power cord in the trash, and challenged myself to go as long as I could without it. I purchased a lower-end laptop and dock to plug into to still have dual monitors. It's not powerful enough to play the games I want to play which was the point, but I could still run VS Code to work with Python, Javascript, spin up webservers to play around, etc.
I ended up lasting a couple of weeks before purchasing a new power cord - but I did learn to remember that I do like programming/scripting.
The lack of self-control/willpower sucks. It would be nice if there were ADHD life coaches that didn't cost an arm and a leg.
I feel that you are not at peace with yourself yet. I can't have that too, maybe for the whole life. I hope eventually you can have peace with yourself.
Actually, the more I read your post, the more I feel that we have the same issues. I had those "ripping the Band-Aid off" moments too, but they never worked for long. I also lack self-control/willpower and fancy about a service that throws me into a prison and forces me to do what I want to focus on.
Normal humans have a wide range of neural diversity, that's not a disease.
Reading about adhd to understand how it impacts your brain and life
Reading about coping mechanisms and actually doing them
Things everyone hears and never does but it absolutely helps: good diet, exercise, meditation
Work on any other mental health issues you have
Therapy
Lots of trial and error of management methods to see what works
Learning to be kind to myself
Stopping “I should” statements.
Realizing that if something was actually that important to me, I would work on it. If I don’t finish a side project it means it probably isn’t that important and that’s okay
And medication, which alone is at least 30% of the improvement
I've contemplating sales calls. You can theoretically make like on the order of over $1000/hour while sitting on a bench or walking on a trail. It can be done in short bursts once you get the hang of it.
Then once you have some financial freedom in a few hours of successful work (not the first few hours), you can sell other people designs for clubhouses and build them all over the world and pay people to show up to club meetings (because sadly that is the only way).
Modern workplaces are a lot like clubhouses because everyone is friends there, but they suck because you have to be there all day. If you could just show up to any workplace for a few hours here and there whenever you wanted, the world would be a better place. Some days you could be a dishwasher, other days you could be a bulldozer operator or dig in the mines. I like to try new jobs.
That's my business idea, thanks.
I wish you good luck!
Very familiar with ADHD and anxiety which is extremely disruptive. I sometimes think its more of a autistic spectrum thing as there is a vivid world of thought in my head I retreat into and the real world. The anxiety part is where the self sabotage comes from as you get bad thoughts stuck in your head which puts fear into you and causes a feed-back loop of doom that leads to depression. That or you invent all sorts of "bad" fantasy outcomes or scenarios that become excuses to avoid anxiety causing things without ever attempting anything. That leads to depression.
I think the right answer is therapy and likely medication. I am currently looking for therapy but navigating the US medical system and insurance bullshit is triggering on every level causing anxiety, depression, and rage. I suppose I'll have to sacrifice my savings and pay out of pocket.
Good luck, stay strong, and remember - you can overcome it. It takes effort which for us is very very difficult.
Thanks for the encouragement.
most of the time my rabbit holes are pragmatic and related to a hobby, skill, or educational/learning.
but sometimes the rabbit holes are escapism -- and instead of telling myself this is wasted time, i've tried to develop a more cooperative relationship w my feelings and my brain --the brain, the body, perhaps the "spirit" was in need of rest, and it recuperates in ways that generally are creature comforts (maybe reading or Netflix binges or video games and chess or sleeping for me, YMMV w.r.t. "meaningless" activities).
this has mitigated a lot of the existential dread i previously would experience, especially in how i relate to perceived "wasted time".
obviously this is my experience and i do not mean to imply the above anecdote as being a prescriptive change, but the existential dilemmas i'd find myself in due to whatever neuro divergence i demonstrate, have gotten a lot less frequent, and i find myself enjoying these experiences, and therefore appreciating my rabbit-holes more and more over time. or rather, appreciating my brain, and my experiences overall.
i've tried the preventative and/or tried fighting "against the current", so to speak, and it always left me exhausted, depressed, despairing, lamenting, and floating back the way i came, so i kinda said fuck it, built myself a raft that i strengthen over time, and just navigate the waters as they come.
edit: i realize i drifted away from the original topic -- i've had the opposite experience with the internet. while it has contributed to me consuming otherwise "meaningless" content from time to time for no other reason than wanting to be a couch potate, i have benefitted from the ease of access to information in such a crazy fucking way, especially with platforms like youtube (and forums, or aggregators) -- i mean we effectively have libraries in various forms and abstractions at our fingertips. yes it means accessible vectors for distraction, but man -- it's single-handedly the one tool my life has benefitted the most from using -- and that includes some of the listed pursuits involving networking, relationship building/socializing, my career, my "real-world" interests and experiences, good, bad, and everything in between.
Google is a new Microsoft, they leverage their position to cross promote their shit browser and their shit data stealing services.
Sorry guys, if your data collection website doesn't work well with Firefox and uBlock Origin, I just won't use it.
Most people, including a great many former Firefox users, simply chose to keep on using Chrome because it offered (and still offers) a superior web browsing experience compared to its competitors.
This isn't specifically tied to the performance of Google's various web sites, either. Firefox still feels slow and bloated even on non-Google web sites. A lot of people who don't even use Google's web sites or services still choose to use Chrome anyway.
Many of Chrome's users could easily switch to Firefox at any time, yet they choose not to.
Firefox's developers simply haven't given people a compelling reason to start (or to switch back to) using Firefox.
Isnt a huge reason Google just lost its anti trust case exactly this? Google search is the default on iphones and studies, and the court, found that that was enough to make a huge majority of users stay with google search for years and years.
Most people, including a great many former Netscape users, simply chose to keep on using IE because it offered (and still offers) a superior web browsing experience compared to its competitors.
Freedom of choice
Is what you got
Freedom from choice
Is what you want
I doubt they think about Firefox much at all.
All of the metrics I've seen lately for a variety of web sites indicate that Firefox has less than 3% of the overall market.
The mobile situation is particularly bleak, where I've yet to see it even get close to breaking 1%.
At this point, Firefox's share of the market is closer to that of Mosaic, Navigator, and IE than it is to Chrome, Safari, and Edge.
I am noticing an increasing number of sites that just plain don't work on Firefox including the one I use to pay my credit card.
"Youtube has been unusable for years and is only getting worse." I only use FF on a work laptop, and I only use brave at home. No issues, ever. In fact, YTP is the one sub service i've paid for uninterrupted over my adult life. (shill post over.)
How can I help you get back to using youtube, and what about is getting worse that I can keep an eye on?
As a matter of fact the antitrust enforcers just won their case against Google.
They are in the remedy phase now. Figuring out what Google's punishment is going to be.
Google no longer being allowed to pay Firefox for its default search placement is most certainly in play as part of the possible remedies.
https://www.thebignewsletter.com/p/boom-judge-rules-google-i...
If you follow the money the idea that Google would sabotage Firefox doesn't make a lot of sense.
It's more likely that Google kept Firefox on life support so they could plausibly deny that they had a browser monopoly. Firefox blew that by mismanaging its market share into oblivion though.
(Except that it might dry up Firefox's funding if Google won't pay Mozilla to be the default browser engine anymore...)
let's not assume Google malice is _too_ competent
I found a nice article on exactly this from a former Mozilla exec: https://www.zdnet.com/article/former-mozilla-exec-google-has...
> Gmail & [Google] Docs started to experience selective performance issues and bugs on Firefox. Demo sites would falsely block Firefox as 'incompatible' […] All of this is stuff you're allowed to do to compete, of course. But we were still a search partner, so we'd say 'hey what gives?' And every time, they'd say, 'oops. That was accidental. We'll fix it in the next push in 2 weeks.' […] Over and over. Oops. Another accident. We'll fix it soon. We want the same things. We're on the same team. There were dozens of oopses. Hundreds maybe?
This latest article is basically the same thing again. Google would tell Mozilla it's a genuine bug; they would fix it soon; but Mozilla loses some users and Chrome gains some. Nothing new.
Just because there's no one person twirling their mustache and mwahahaha-ing doesn't mean this isn't malicious and hostile behavior by Google. It doesn't matter even if there's no individual human at Google that intended this.
What does matter is that the leadership at Google clearly doesn't do what is necessary in preventing hostile behavior as a consequence of negligence. They know that if they don't put in the effort to ensure compatibility, side effects will degrade competitor performance. It's an inevitable consequence; they've done, and been forced to do, the right thing, and provide quality assurance and compatibility review in complex systems. There are people that know the consequences of not being proactive. Hell, they probably have lawyers that know the exact numbers - they probably make some tens of millions of dollars more revenue by "slacking off" and not being proactive about compatibility.
On the contrary, i think it applies more. The larger the group, the more stupid stuff it does.
Yes, it's not a massive browser share these days, but it's basically the only major browser left that doesn't share any lineage for the rendering engine.
I agree it'll be incompetence, but they'll definitely have Firefox QA testing.
My app is also having performance issues with WebGL on Firefox so I guess I'm part of the conspiracy?
Turns out "free markets" (by the econ 101 definition) are bad for capital owners so they try to have the markets be as not free as possible, I'm shocked they would do this (well, not that shocked)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism#Definition
to note that "Capitalism" is really a technical term from Marxist theory. Advocates of capitalism will never find a definition they accept because they want to have one that encompasses all the good (of which there is plenty) and rejects the bad (of which there is also plenty)
Positing such as thing as "Capitalism" is positing that there could be some other system or that the current system could have an end. Advocates of the status quo really believe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There_is_no_alternative
want to treat prosystemic economics as a science like physics or chemistry, etc.
If there is a way our system can claim to be better than others it is because we have competition in markets, politically, etc.
It's not even really a question, it's a collective action problem, nominally hampered by price-fixing laws. Price-fixing laws are an indication that the desire to avoid competition is so strong and so dangerous that to slow it down we're willing to abridge the supposedly universal freedoms of speech and of association.
Isn't that what got us into this mess in the first place? Seems to me that anti-competitive practices are the logical conclusion of privately-owned enterprise.
EDIT: to be clear, I'm very pro breaking up google. I'm just surprised that people are coming back around to the idea that government intervention is necessary to balance a stable economy with a private one.
We’d be using AT&T’s version of AOL for $150/mo without breakup of that company.
Things like browsers need some kind of open source reference implementation to act as a spec to maintain interoperability.
2) A reference implementation for browser-features is an insanely complex project. Already there are effectively only two entities on the entire planet who can produce a browser that is reasonably close to the current spec. If you forced a reference implementation to exist, it'd probably just end up being Chrome(ium), which is arguably an even worse situation than where we are now.
I want to like Dreamweaver but whenever I try to use it there is a 1-2 sec delay between me typing text in and it appearing on the screen.
Most HTML editors behave like they are possessed by the devil: try to select the text in an <h1> and somehow it either selects everything but the first character or it selects all the text before the <h1> and also the <h1>.
Python is much more successful (it really ate Perl's lunch), and less of a moving target, because of this. Alternate implementations of don't really exist, because they're always having to play catch-up. Python's specifications level the field a bit.
Since YT in my FF is heavily modified to be not awful, maybe the regression is in something my add-on stack is blocking.
looked this up out of curiosity. the only thing resembling a description is "Combine small plugins, expanding the possibilities of YouTube." which is pretty useless.
what all does this do?
I did have issues with YouTube recently - I was getting some of the same symptoms described in the Reddit post. But tracked it down to me changing my user-agent to Chrome, which I had forgotten about. This was also causing issues with reCaptcha and Cloudflare-protected sites.
After a few times I got into the habit of "increment seconds by 60, reload page".
I don't know why it has to be so hard, I seldom to never go to YouTube now because of how badly it works.
Feels super anti-competitive to own YouTube and Chrome, and to punish Firefox users so aggressively.
Looking through the Reddit comments, users running older versions of FF may be affected? Seeing a few people commenting that they're seeing this YT issue with v88, 110, 115 ESR and 121.
The slowness accumulates after the infinite scroll loads a lot (e.g., the subscriptions page or the home page, or comments). Refreshing fixes it, but now you've lost the old position and have to re-scroll back (which, causes the slowness once again).
It used to be that if one were watching one YouTube video and followed a YouTube link to another, that one would be prompted to either enqueue that video or go to it immediately. I used that all the time to enqueue an evening’s worth of videos.
Now, each link interrupts the current video and starts playing. Which means that I instead have to watch the video, then go back to my list of videos to watch, then select another one.
Also, it used to be that YouTube links would just open in the YouTube app. This was nice. Now, they open in an embedded version of the app, which means that my current app (say, an RSS reader) is blocked until I finish watching.
It’s all so annoying. Why does Google make the experience of using its own products worse?
Google Meet never worked well for me, even after I got my ADSL upgraded to a more reasonable 20Mbps. Zoom works fine. Skype works fine. Discord works fine. The chat built into Slack... works fine. Google is a standout.
If you're not also ensuring that others can access that copy then I don't really see the point.
The noticeable first delay this session, they displayed a still image of the Chrome logo in the video area, with text saying that they recommend Chrome, and maybe a button to get Chrome.
(Edit: Screenshot from reproducing this in new browser session; again, it was the first ad, blocking before playing any content video: https://i.imgur.com/GkasyRX.png )
(I'm wondering why they bother with this, if under antitrust scrutiny, when they have more subtle and deniable ways of leveraging their platform control.)
Though, I should mention that YouTube is not showing ad videos when it seems to be trying to, which could explain some of these delays. It will overlay white text in upper left of video area, identifying an advertiser (e.g., Old Spice, Liberty Mutual?), but then not run the ad at all, and move on after several seconds. I suppose that my uBlock Origin rules might be blocking something for ad display now, though that's not my intent (and I normally see YouTube videos without having consciously changed something since then), or the ad-showing failure might be the fault of YouTube.
But when I try using it with an account that doesn't have YouTube Premium, on the same browser, on the same hardware, everything hangs for 30+ seconds.
Hmmmmmmmmm?
FWIW, I've got NoScript blocking most of the sites that YouTube wants to use js from.
Maybe we're still in the big bang of the Internet and this will fix itself over time. Although I'd really like a public organization like the Library of Congress to support archival of public spaces.
Which makes me wonder: If society decides that viewing information is a right, does that lead to government sponsorship of browsers? i.e. if viewing information is a right, then an information viewer is an important thing that must be open and unfettered by monetary interests. Considering how much gets pumped into Congressional jobs programs, a few million to hire some good software engineers seems easy to support.
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Surprisingly, to me, it had no problem with Duck's browser. I thought that would be on the forbidden-by-Google list, too.
youtube.com##ytd-rich-grid-renderer:style(--ytd-rich-grid-items-per-row: 5 !important)
But all my Firefox problems happen on Google owned sites. Maps navigation doesn't highlight the route (desktop). Google image search doesn't work (desktop).
[edit]
Just ran into the issue when clicking on a video someone else linked; yt homepage was fine though; weird.
Just a normal day on YouTube for me.
(context: https://archive.is/tgIH9)
i'd wager that those choosing to installing firefox are more likely to go to this route themselves.