Py5, a Python version of Processing for your creative coding projects (opens in new tab)

(py5coding.org)

90 pointshx2a1y ago31 comments

31 comments

I don't get it, I thought this was a port of Processing to Python, but then the installation instruction says:

> If you have Java 17 installed on your computer, you can install py5 using pip:

So it still depends on Java? Is this like a Python wrapper for Processing?

UPDATE: Got the explanation. From another page on the website:

> Py5 is a creative coding framework for Python 3.9+. Its use and functionality is analogous to the widely used Processing framework. It is a Python version of Processing.

> Internally py5 uses Processing’s core libraries, which are written in Java, while providing the end user with a (mostly) seamless Python programming experience.

Emphasis is mine. The wording in the first paragraph (which is the same as on the project's home page) seems ambiguous to me. Reading it I would really not expect a Java dependency.

animal_spirits1y ago

Yep. In case you don’t want to write Java you can do it in Python. But it uses the same engine

jszymborski1y ago

I suppose jython would be particularly useful in such cases

3 more replies

kdlafan1y ago

It seems like an axiom that no Python package can be written that does not depend on C/C++/Java doing the real work.

nomel1y ago

Python is successful because everyone is aware that it has relatively terrible performance. As a result, anything remotely heavy is put into performant libraries that use not-python, leaving a nice glue language with fast libraries.

If you have something CPU bound, and it's python code hitting that ceiling, you're probably throwing away 10x performance [1]. That's ok, because anyone that cares about performance doesn't do that (or quickly learns).

[1] https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/cpp-vs-py...

noitpmeder1y ago

Why would you rewrite something that already exists? It'd be a different story if the library evolved naturally starting with python, which it very much might if it was created today.

acbart1y ago

Why must every educational python library insist on teaching kids with global variables? I know parameters aren't easy for novices, but it feels like it's missing a lot of the value when we don't attempt to teach them...

bongodongobob1y ago

Because it's perfectly fine for 100 line programs. Beginners don't need to write extensible code that will be maintained for 30 years on business critical systems. You start by learning what a fuckin for loop does.

nomel1y ago

Not only that, it's a relatively gentle introduction into object oriented concepts, where an instance is just like independent copies of modules, as they're using them: module.function(), with function accessing some global conceptually turns into instance.function() where function accesses some instance "global".

I was always a bit surprised that python didn't allow "module instances" that automatically did that.

1 more reply

bityard1y ago

Because the concept of variables must be learned before the concept of scope.

nnnnico1y ago

True, but having a single scope is more intuitive at first for people who don't have a good grasp of what a function is and are still trying to understand programming. Also processing/p5 kind of focuses on the speed and accessibility of getting an idea going, for which a game-loop and a single func scope are quite powerful!

Aerroon1y ago

I can foresee the name of this causing issues in a decade or two when python releases version 5.

linsomniac1y ago

I think everyone who has gone through the 2->3 transition will have to be dead before 3->4 will have a chance of even being considered. :-)

abathur1y ago

Python 95 :)

knighthack1y ago

As someone who heavily uses Manim with Python, I like the idea. But I really don't want to use 'Py5' if it then has a Java dependency.

skywhopper1y ago

I see the Processing folks have not lost their touch for unnecessarily confusing names. Why on earth would they call this “py5”?

animal_spirits1y ago

the javascript version of processing is called p5js. According to the creator the 5 comes from "the original domain of processing was proce55ing.net, so people used to sometimes refer to processing as proce55ing or P5 or p5 for short. they still do sometimes. p5.js is a reference to that."

https://github.com/processing/p5.js/issues/2443

skywhopper1y ago

Thanks for the answer, although it reinforces my point I think. I remember when Processing was the hot new thing and reading about it was incredibly confusing.

rorytbyrne1y ago

"X is a new version of Y" is a really uninformative way to introduce a project.

It's especially annoying when I click the link to Y and it just says "This repository contains the source code for Y".

bongodongobob1y ago

Is this any faster than Processing? I like playing with it for random art projects but always end up in optimization hell trying to speed things up.

senkora1y ago

I would assume that drawing performance is slower because it’s doing FFI from CPython to the JVM, but that you may be able to get speedup if your bottleneck is something that can leverage numpy.

bongodongobob1y ago

Yeah, I think most times it isn't the drawing but the calculations I'm doing in the background, I'll have to try this out.

gdevenyi1y ago

It took way too many clicks for me to figure out what this project is. And I'm still not entirely sure.

dotancohen1y ago

It's a Python wrapper for a popular Java tool.

snitty1y ago

…which isn't a great explainer if you're not familiar with that Java tool.

Seems like it's an alternative to tk/tkinter.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

31 comments

p4bl01y ago

I don't get it, I thought this was a port of Processing to Python, but then the installation instruction says:

> If you have Java 17 installed on your computer, you can install py5 using pip:

So it still depends on Java? Is this like a Python wrapper for Processing?

UPDATE: Got the explanation. From another page on the website:

> Py5 is a creative coding framework for Python 3.9+. Its use and functionality is analogous to the widely used Processing framework. It is a Python version of Processing.

> Internally py5 uses Processing’s core libraries, which are written in Java, while providing the end user with a (mostly) seamless Python programming experience.

Emphasis is mine. The wording in the first paragraph (which is the same as on the project's home page) seems ambiguous to me. Reading it I would really not expect a Java dependency.

animal_spirits1y ago

Yep. In case you don’t want to write Java you can do it in Python. But it uses the same engine

jszymborski1y ago

I suppose jython would be particularly useful in such cases

3 more replies

kdlafan1y ago

It seems like an axiom that no Python package can be written that does not depend on C/C++/Java doing the real work.

nomel1y ago

[1] https://programming-language-benchmarks.vercel.app/cpp-vs-py...

noitpmeder1y ago

Why would you rewrite something that already exists? It'd be a different story if the library evolved naturally starting with python, which it very much might if it was created today.

acbart1y ago

bongodongobob1y ago

nomel1y ago

I was always a bit surprised that python didn't allow "module instances" that automatically did that.

1 more reply

bityard1y ago

Because the concept of variables must be learned before the concept of scope.

nnnnico1y ago

Aerroon1y ago

I can foresee the name of this causing issues in a decade or two when python releases version 5.

linsomniac1y ago

I think everyone who has gone through the 2->3 transition will have to be dead before 3->4 will have a chance of even being considered. :-)

abathur1y ago

Python 95 :)

knighthack1y ago

As someone who heavily uses Manim with Python, I like the idea. But I really don't want to use 'Py5' if it then has a Java dependency.

skywhopper1y ago

I see the Processing folks have not lost their touch for unnecessarily confusing names. Why on earth would they call this “py5”?

animal_spirits1y ago

https://github.com/processing/p5.js/issues/2443

skywhopper1y ago

Thanks for the answer, although it reinforces my point I think. I remember when Processing was the hot new thing and reading about it was incredibly confusing.

rorytbyrne1y ago

"X is a new version of Y" is a really uninformative way to introduce a project.

It's especially annoying when I click the link to Y and it just says "This repository contains the source code for Y".

bongodongobob1y ago

Is this any faster than Processing? I like playing with it for random art projects but always end up in optimization hell trying to speed things up.

senkora1y ago

I would assume that drawing performance is slower because it’s doing FFI from CPython to the JVM, but that you may be able to get speedup if your bottleneck is something that can leverage numpy.

bongodongobob1y ago

Yeah, I think most times it isn't the drawing but the calculations I'm doing in the background, I'll have to try this out.

gdevenyi1y ago

It took way too many clicks for me to figure out what this project is. And I'm still not entirely sure.

dotancohen1y ago

It's a Python wrapper for a popular Java tool.

snitty1y ago

…which isn't a great explainer if you're not familiar with that Java tool.

Seems like it's an alternative to tk/tkinter.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse