Long story short, health and living situation made me lose nice full-stack remote dev job, networking opportunities, my confidence, and my motivation to compete in this job market. As I said, my health is better, but my will to grind leetcode and apply to a million job listings that might not even be real is gone. It's not just time-consuming, it's demoralizing and messing with my head big time And as I said, I have no network.
Remote is no longer a requirement for me, but flexible or second/third shift jobs are ideal. Sleep schedule is still a struggle, even now.
I've got some thoughts:
- Apply only to federal and state government software dev/IT jobs for new grads. These listings have specific requirements (you must be a new grad and an American citizen), so it might not be as saturated as the private sector. I've read online that the interviews are easy, no leetcode.
- If that doesn't work, look into which certifications would help me land a job in a tech adjacent role that isn't dev and isn't as competitive. Would appreciate guidance here, because from what I've seen, IT appears to be just as bad as dev right now.
- If that doesn't work, look into pivoting to tech recruiting. Hopefully I wouldn't need to go back to school for this.
- If none of that works, forget tech jobs altogether, and apply to jobs that are less competitive and only require a degree.
- I have been seriously considering selling software dev courses. Always had an interest in this, to be honest. I'd also love to build a one-man SaaS business too, at the intersection of these (e.g. software for Instructional Designers). Both of these are just dreams or potential side hustles, as I don't have the capital to sustain a solo/bootstrapped business right now.
Any advice, ideas or feedback on my current options would be appreciated.
OP does not have a job and, especially in a the crumby market that we’re in for tech work, they just need anything they can get. You’re speaking from a place way higher on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs than where OP is currently.
It’s hard to imagine yourself in a position where you can casually choose who you want to work for if you are not even getting interviews or offers in the first place. This is therefore not a strategy that leads to very motivational results.
But think Addaon also has a point. Yeah, the interview process can often be horrible. It can be demoralizing, especially after what the OP has gone through with their health (I have major health problems too, so can sympathize). For me at least, my solution was to treat a tough job search like a job. And in this way, you don't take all the rejection so personally (it's just apart of the interviewing).
Think this requires more context then what's possible in a post, but the OP may benefit from learning techniques for handling rejection? (I use them myself)
I came to realise that this kind of stereotype was effectively a narrow minded form of gate-keeping that contributed to the myopic tech-bro dystopia that’s been swallowing all that is good in this world.
Additionally — the original poster has been living through some very difficult times, it would be perfectly normal, and not a sign of job fitness, if motivation hit zero during a period like that.
I just urge them and others to ignore what you’ve said, and to look for a broader worldview.
For example, I'm excited to work on my own projects, toying with new languages, teaching my kids, etc, but the overwhelming priority is to find something that pays the bills, and after a long and demoralizing day following that goal, I have little energy to invest much in a shot-in-the-dark side project, even if I had a good idea for one.
These are often less competitive than startup or tech companies too. By some measures the work can be less exciting but it varies quite a bit so don't judge in advance. Also it will be in support of things people actually want and use and are willing to pay money for, in sharp contrast to tech industry adware and VC rent seeking.
I think I can understand where this statement comes from, and it's generally a good idea to stay away from those with bad track records and no signs of change. The wording does rub off wrong a bit because I think it's important to give unproven people a chance, especially if their circumstances have been very unkind to them. What would you count as a sufficiently active community or a qualified mentor?
Nothing wrong with keeping to oneself, in fact, I would rather trust someone who is self governed than a sheep that needs to be in a community.
Also, who deals in absolutes? People are complex. Very stupid take
Yeah, I probably wouldn't trust anyone who only looks at social proof to determine who's a good person and who isn't.
Best of luck!
As an aside, my more general advice is to find the one thing that makes you stand out among the sea of other candidates, no matter how small or seemingly insignificant it is, and focus on that in your résumé and cover letters. I have been hired at past jobs for all sorts of crazy/dumb reasons. After I got hired at my first "real" (9-5) software engineering job, my boss later told me that he picked me because I mentioned Clojure once on my résumé and he thought that was cool, and I didn't even have any professional experience with it, just a curiosity for it. (This was over 12 years ago when Clojure was still relatively new.)
Focus on sending 3-4 _excellent_ applications a day rather than 3000-4000 AI-generated garbage ones. Also, go through your text message history and text every person on there the following:
``` Hi $NAME! I just saw you on $SOCIAL_MEDIA doing $THING and I thought about you? What's the latest with you? No rush to respond if you're busy.
wait for response
Great to hear! I'm currently looking for a software engineering job, do you know anyone who's hiring? ```
You do those two things consistently, you'll have three job offers within 3-4 months.
Now the tricky part is getting the confidence to ACTUALLY DO THE ABOVE. What helped me is going outside and getting involved in ANY club. In the past for me it's been salsa dancing, stand up comedy, and taking a cooking class. Replace those with any other activity you're remotely interested.
Good luck. You got this. The first job or two in tech is tricky. After 3-4 years it gets way easier.
> IMO- Comp sci jobs are crutches at best.
This macro will pass, you just need a place to hang your hat until you've gotten your foundation poured and cured. It will also help you build your resume while others cannot find junior work. Best wishes.
https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?rmi=true
(Your state gov might have great remote opportunities as well, I would encourage you to spend a few hours researching)
The only exception in my experience (and this helped me get a job when I was a new grad) is having a large portfolio of tangible projects. Not just react tutorials, programs that solve a problem someone had or did something interesting. For example, I did a lot of programming in middle school and high school related to automating games like RuneScape. Also had a win at the international science and engineering fair in the computing division. It’s safe to claim years of experience when you’ve got something to show for it.
I’d recommend spending more time on networking, it’s a lot easier to get an interview when you have a connection with the company/hiring manager. Just keep up your coding skills in your primary language so that when the interview comes along you’re ready.
Also it feels like the job market is getting a little better as well.
Someone else commented about startups, that’s also great advice and that was how I got my first FullStack job. Funny enough it was actually from a Hackernews who’s hiring!
> I’d recommend spending more time on networking
working for interesting people is a joy.
If you want time-of-day flexibility, look for either a distributed startup OR a giant company that has presence in lots of different timezones
I applied to a few federal jobs after grad school, and some of them offered flexible arrangements (e.g., 4 days a week x 10 hrs or 9x9 hours with alternate Fridays off). Telework is often an option too.
- Can this person be a sponge and soak up knowledge?
- Can this person do basic tasks unsupervised, like generate an ad-hoc CSV report of customers that logged in the last 30 days?
If you possess these qualities, you're likely to be a valuable asset to seed or Series A startups. Many of these companies have a general recruiting email address. I recommend crafting a concise yet impactful email that:
1. Expresses your genuine interest in the startup's mission and goals
2. Highlights your eagerness to learn and contribute
3. Acknowledges your current skill level while emphasizing your potential for growth
4. Frames your application as a mutually beneficial investment - they invest in developing your skills, and you invest your dedication and fresh perspective into their company
By joining a startup you'll likely have the opportunity to work alongside some of the industry's brightest minds. Most high end software engineers actively seek to work with newcomers to the field. Teaching and mentoring often challenge seasoned professionals to reassess and articulate their ideas, leading to fresh insights. It not only accelerates your learning but also contributes to the overall growth of the team.
I'm literally doing the math on what sort of pay/title cut I'd be willing to take to move from a large corp to a sane, non-toxic workplace. I'm mid-career and know some people my level who have just exited the rat race. I was hoping once US rates get cut, things get less meaner .. but looks like this will continue for a while longer.
As it stands, tech at large companies has become a terrible career. I'm saying this as someone who is deeply passionate about technology and work at the cutting edge of AI. I think a big part is cargo culting and MBA-think in management. Instead of working, we spend months and months planning to do work. Other people in this boat or just my pond?
I would also just look outside IT as well. I eventually left IT and I actually like it a lot better. I actually still code here and there but it's not a main part of my work any more.
Now when I say he did nothing but that I mean exactly that. He lived with me and he went to his junior dev job, came home, made dinner, and went into his bedroom and worked on his dev job and studying everything about JSAR. He took on as many extra stories he could, cleaned up code to make the work easier, and asked 10k questions.
Then he found his next job after about a year, and found a better job. That one lasted about 2 years, and he did a similar thing, he helped clean up code, make the projects easier, and took on stories that he could do. And he played a little bit more but he still put more hours into his work than into his play time.
At this time he had 3 years, and moved on to his next job and did it all over again. And when he left this third job or his fourth he was the senior dev.
Also, he always worked with the team and didn't isolate (though above it sounds like he isolated - maybe from me but not from the job or team). He learned everything that he could during all this time and he helped newer developers or developers that were struggling with things that he wasn't. He was a team player and always helpful to everyone.
He is a senior developer, owns his on town house, commands a 6 figure salary and is bored so his time off is between learning new things, and taking time with his friends.
Also, every job was a different industry meaning he didn't specialize in a type of industry. Financial, travel, etc. He specialized in JSAR and he's an expert in Full Stack systems.
So if there is any advice I can give, from the immortal word of RuPaul - "You Better Work!!!" and become an expert and team player.
It wasn't about the first job he took as a junior developer - it was about the work and always doing more.
Lots of good advice in this thread already. Just a note on this: when the market is tough for getting hired as an engineer, it’s REALLY tough for getting hired as a tech recruiter.
So if the market is a main concern, recruiting probably isn’t the best fallback.
The market for tech recruiting has been hit as hard and in some ways harder than the market for tech workers. Most folks are finding or placing jobs through in-network referrals and recruiters are finding much lower demand for their services after a long period of having it good.
I know some actually good recruiters and really feel for those folks right now, as well as early career folks like yourself. It took me 8+ months to find a job myself in 2023.
Wishing you the best of luck in your search! Sincerely rooting for you and hope your luck will turn around.
You may want to play the long game, and just assume it might take awhile to get the next job (but keep trying, it'll eventually work!).
Ps - I have health problems too, and for me at least, trying to problem solve to work around health issues is what tends to work for me.
Lots of small businesses need tech support. Maybe you can find a local business, get any job in their office and find ways to make your technology skills useful after you learn the business and determine if there is a personal fit with your colleagues? Sounds like a lot of work if you have tech skills, but that is a need and those are the hoops you need to jump to get that work.
No leetcode in most cases, but you will have to apply to a lot of jobs (but they are definitely real in those sites).
Keep a spreadsheet to organize yourself and keep applying. It’s kind necessary, but worth it.
Don’t give up! Good luck!
Domain specific jobs tend to be much more rare, but also much easier to get if you have the unique skill set needed.
Have you considered DevRel? It might be worth looking into if you're interested in the teaching aspect.
How can I contact you?
If not, is there anything adjacent you'd like to pivot to?
Tune in to what you love doing - that's where your job is.
The BEST advice I can give you is to make a real world project to send to potential employers. Show you have what it takes from wireframe to MVP and beyond.
Show the process. You can do this all via git and commits and PR's.
-Create the readme with the wireframe and photos of whiteboard if that's your thing. -Create the project and keep track of all progress via PR's and explain your logic and reasoning for decisions. -Once your at a place where your at MVP show the release process in your readme. -Once at MVP make sure you focus on performance and track the changes you make in PR's.
This will let employers know you can work on a real project with real value and understand how pieces fit together way past writing small feature code. This needs to be beyond the skill level of your project work in school.
I WISH I would have known this when I got into tech. I now work as an SRE and still code a rails web app but not for my day job.
I see a ton of listings wanting cloud experience along side the dev work. I think its very important to know. For example my rails app uses S3 for hosting tons of images. I not only know AWS as I use it daily in my day job but know it well enough to utilize it in my rails app and make the most of it. S3 is a simple example but you get the idea.
You can also play with release processes and pipelines and have a solid release plan for your work so that employers see okay the application not only can code a project from start to MVP and beyond BUT you can also get it out in the world. If your project makes sense to containerize into micro services then use Kubernetes. Use ArgoCD or similiar to deploy it, etc...Be able to roll back the app and have that built into the functionality that roll backs are possible. Have a DR plan and especially around data integrity not just infra. Use terraform (infra as code), etc...A lot you can do to really impress employers.
I really wish you the best of luck and don't give up. If you have to get another role that's not what you want until you can get hired as a dev do it but don't give up on the dev side. Hopefully my advice helps.
If your curious about my transition from a wanna be dev to SRE I was told that the world needed more infrastructure guys and I happened to be a Linux nerd in high school so I learned cloud online (linux academy but its now a cloud guru) in a few months and was able to land my first role. I was able to prove via code (terraform and an entire release process) in git for a sample app that I had what it takes to do the job.