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0 pointseesmith1y ago0 comments

Gahh! I'm planning a move from macOS to some Linux-based OS once this laptop dies. I've had 20+ years of using Mail.app and thought that Thunderbird would be the appropriate replacement.

But that link, and the comments at https://connect.mozilla.org/t5/ideas/thunderbird-should-by-d... ('Given that significant parts of Thunderbirds user interface (addons manager details, welcome page, whats new on updates etc) are essentially served as web pages into Thunderbird, perhaps your expectations are becoming unreasonable.') tell me that Thunderbird does not respect my desire to minimize my info leakage to the outside world.

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einpoklum1y ago

The "served as web pages" is a bit misleading. It just means that the UI layout engine takes HTML or XML, not that information is passed through a web server.

eesmithOP1y ago

Sure, but the link concerned all telemetry, of which accessing a web page, even just to show what's news, is one.

The overall attitude included comments like 'I would like to see significantly more anonymous telemetry not less', while I want no network connections in my mail reader except that which I specifically initiate.

These are people so acculturated to data collection that they don't understand that some others don't want it.

einpoklum1y ago

There are organizational incentives to this approach - at Mozilla / Thunderbird, with which I have a bone to pick; but also elsewhere.

A couple of years back I was involved in an argument about doing something a bit similar in LibreOffice:

https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2022/11/01/commun...

Note the back-and-forth in the comments.

eesmithOP1y ago

I understand why developers want feedback. I have paying customers for my software library and I can't get useful feedback from then about what features they use.

OTOH, why can't get get UI feedback from logging institutional users for different domains, where they can get real legal and ethical consent from the institution side?

I mean, yes, it's easier to force it on everyone and have them swallow the pill for lack of alternatives than it is to deal with organizations. But then the issue isn't one of lack of data, it's that they don't want to deal with organizations as equals, since that takes more work.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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einpoklum1y ago

The "served as web pages" is a bit misleading. It just means that the UI layout engine takes HTML or XML, not that information is passed through a web server.

eesmithOP1y ago

Sure, but the link concerned all telemetry, of which accessing a web page, even just to show what's news, is one.

These are people so acculturated to data collection that they don't understand that some others don't want it.

einpoklum1y ago

There are organizational incentives to this approach - at Mozilla / Thunderbird, with which I have a bone to pick; but also elsewhere.

A couple of years back I was involved in an argument about doing something a bit similar in LibreOffice:

https://design.blog.documentfoundation.org/2022/11/01/commun...

Note the back-and-forth in the comments.

eesmithOP1y ago

I understand why developers want feedback. I have paying customers for my software library and I can't get useful feedback from then about what features they use.

OTOH, why can't get get UI feedback from logging institutional users for different domains, where they can get real legal and ethical consent from the institution side?

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse