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0 pointssmileybarry1y ago0 comments

WinUI3 is a can of worms that’s becoming palatable only with .NET 8 (and soon 9). In a normal configuration, you have to bring 500MB of dependencies with you, or ask the user to install a redistributable. You also need the user to install .NET 8, or bring said 0.5GB with you.

WinUI3 can be used in unpackaged apps (I.e.: not appx) but has a few random caveats that just don’t work; random APIs that have a footnote of “oh this doesn’t work in unpackaged apps” or “works in unpackaged apps but only in .NET Preview something-something”.

.NET 8 fixes a lot of this by adding AOT compilation and single-binary releases, but it’s still fairly large. .NET 9 then improves culling of unused framework code from your published file, and also adds WPF -> WinUI3 theming support.

Source: my repeated attempts to rewrite our product’s UI in WinUI3 (from WPF on .NET Framework 3.5) several times.

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9 comments · 2 top-level

neonsunset1y ago· 4 in thread

What kind of build settings lead to 500 MiB binaries? I struggle to imagine something that could make the toolchain to emit such a large binary save for select degenerate cases of runaway generic specialization when you AOT compile an SDK that combines LINQ with 2102718201 enum types, all of which get their own set of generic instantiations for every internal iterator within LINQ - that's a known issue that is fixed by enabling identical method folding in ILC, the worst offender used to be Kiota OpenAPI generator causing this, but thanks to tireless work by Filip Navara that was fixed there.

In general, there are quite a few knobs for configuring how exactly you would like to have your application published. This is also an area of active improvement with each new release as you noted. It is very worth it to look into further build configuration nonetheless. If you still face an issue with "this surely shouldn't take this much space", it might be a good idea to submit it to either https://github.com/dotnet/runtime or to the repo of the GUI framework depending on where you think the fault lies - without feedback it's difficult to know if there is an area that needs improvement or a known improvement opportunity that has demand.

pjc501y ago

WinUI3 itself.

If you want to be "normal", or at least follow the Microsoft semi blessed path, and make an appx, that does not include WinUI3. The user installs it, and in the process pulls down WinUI3 (also an appx) if it is not already installed. It's only if you really insist on "self-contained" that this problem arises.

I say semi-blessed because of course Microsoft aren't really committed to WinUI3 and barely any of their own apps use it.

smileybarryOP1y ago

It’s just because the WinUI3 libraries and/or .NET Core runtime take that much. Mostly WinUI3 IIRC.

And that’s when you use “selfcontained mode” rather than AOT publishing, now with AOT it’s considerably better.

neonsunset1y ago

Self-contained/single-file mode is compatible with trimming and benefits from the work done to improve AOT story. As AOT binaries get smaller and ILLink's analysis gets smarter, the single-file trimmed binaries will see a part of such improvements.

The issue is that many GUI frameworks are not AOT-incompatible per se but rather trim-incompatible as they rely on reflection that is done in a way that is totally opaque to ILLink save for rooting everything.

You can try the following publish option anyway, and in many instances it "just works" (assuming .NET 8 SDK):

    dotnet publish -o out -p:PublishSingleFile=true -p:PublishTrimmed=true

Note: trimming was introduced in .NET 6, and NativeAOT was initially introduced in 7, so it had seen quite a bit of work to mature and improve by the time 8 shipped.

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pjmlp1y ago

You should browse the set of WinUI related repos, YouTube community calls and Developer Connection, feedback is something they aren't short of.

whywhywhywhy1y ago· 3 in thread

I don't understand why Microsoft puts it on the user/dev to make sure their own dependencies and "VC redistributables" are installed.

Like shouldn't Windows 11 just either have that already or pull it down as needed as it's an official MS library.

Feel I always hit a roadblock when setting up a new PC where one of the things needs that but the dev didn't provide it and I have to get it myself. Which feels weird when it's an official MS thing from their official dev tools.

WorldMaker1y ago

Microsoft's solution to DLL hell was installing lots of DLLs side-by-side. The problem with WinUI and VC redistributables is that we've now got a combinatorial explosion of them and teaching an installer to know and understand the complex network of dependencies is a lot of work.

Microsoft's intended solution to this was to write one last Installer platform to try to rule them all. That's where AppX and MSIX installers came from. Unfortunately for us all, that Installer platform was synonymous with the Windows Store/Microsoft Store for just long enough that everyone assumes that is all that AppX/MSIX were intended to be. Today MSIX supports everything you want to do in a Win32 application, plus all the Dependency Fu of getting a WinUI application correctly installed. Just about the only left that you can't install directly in an MSIX is kernel-level drivers and even then there are options depending on your hardware vendor relationship with Microsoft.

The article dismisses MSIX packaging out of hand, but given it is still referred to as AppX packaging in the article, the author might not be aware of how much MSIX packaging has advanced in a bunch of years and still makes some assumptions of MSIX limitations based on early Store-intended AppX restrictions.

HumblyTossed1y ago

> Like shouldn't Windows 11 just either have that already or pull it down as needed as it's an official MS library.

In this day and age of everything always connected, some things still aren't always connected.

estebank1y ago

The app manifest could state "I need this runtime installed". The OS can know whether it is already installed or not. The OS also knows whether it is internet connected or not. If a runtime that isn't installed is needed and internet connectivity isn't available, the OS could state that, with information about how to procure the runtime manually.

That would stop people that have copied thr application from a pendrive in an air gapped system, that's true. One could make the case that someone meeting all of those requirements for would be technically minded enough to figure it out.

This wouldn't help developers who want to distribute a small application that won't ever require a download, but would be an improvement for anyone already distributing .Net applications over the web.

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9 comments · 2 top-level

neonsunset1y ago· 4 in thread

pjc501y ago

WinUI3 itself.

I say semi-blessed because of course Microsoft aren't really committed to WinUI3 and barely any of their own apps use it.

smileybarryOP1y ago

It’s just because the WinUI3 libraries and/or .NET Core runtime take that much. Mostly WinUI3 IIRC.

And that’s when you use “selfcontained mode” rather than AOT publishing, now with AOT it’s considerably better.

neonsunset1y ago

You can try the following publish option anyway, and in many instances it "just works" (assuming .NET 8 SDK):

    dotnet publish -o out -p:PublishSingleFile=true -p:PublishTrimmed=true

Note: trimming was introduced in .NET 6, and NativeAOT was initially introduced in 7, so it had seen quite a bit of work to mature and improve by the time 8 shipped.

1 more reply

pjmlp1y ago

You should browse the set of WinUI related repos, YouTube community calls and Developer Connection, feedback is something they aren't short of.

whywhywhywhy1y ago· 3 in thread

I don't understand why Microsoft puts it on the user/dev to make sure their own dependencies and "VC redistributables" are installed.

Like shouldn't Windows 11 just either have that already or pull it down as needed as it's an official MS library.

WorldMaker1y ago

HumblyTossed1y ago

> Like shouldn't Windows 11 just either have that already or pull it down as needed as it's an official MS library.

In this day and age of everything always connected, some things still aren't always connected.

estebank1y ago

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