undefined | Better HN

0 pointstheultdev1y ago0 comments

Generally it goes like this:

1. Government entity (usually the US or EU country) pressures the host country's government

2. Host country's government makes a legal request to the company for info on this user.

3. Company adds logging for that specific user.

4. Logging is provided to all those interested.

5. Host country prosecutes (potentially extradites).

There's a public accounting of this happening for Proton and Mullvad too iirc.

0 comments

notaustinpowers1y ago

You're making multiple conjectures to get to that conclusion, of which the only evidence presented is another company based in a different country than Proton.

It may be true, it may not be, but there needs to be more information or facts before we get to the original comments statement that Proton gives data to expose protestors to protect "the powers that be".

theultdevOP1y ago

I'm not making conjectures, these events happened.

That's the flow of how government legal requests work with no-log vpn services.

What do you think "Orders complied with" means then?

Here's an instance of Proton adding logging of an activist's IP Address and Device ID after a request from the French authorities:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...

> French police sent a request to Swiss police via Europol to force the company to obtain the IP address of one of its users.

It's right there in the police report.

notaustinpowers1y ago

If a government says "Give us everything you have on this user", and Proton gives them a sheet of paper that says "Here's the primary email for the account, we don't have access to anything else", the order is legally complied with.

Granted, I don't know much of how Swiss legal processes work, but I do know Switzerland has the best privacy laws when it comes to VPNs (which is why a lot of VPNs use Switzerland). Switzerland even has laws on their books that prevent them from compelling no-log VPNs based in Switzerland to log specific users.

1 more reply

xandrius1y ago

Switzerland is one of the few countries not instantly putting up with US demands, so it's not that clear and obvious.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointstheultdev1y ago0 comments

Generally it goes like this:

1. Government entity (usually the US or EU country) pressures the host country's government

2. Host country's government makes a legal request to the company for info on this user.

3. Company adds logging for that specific user.

4. Logging is provided to all those interested.

5. Host country prosecutes (potentially extradites).

There's a public accounting of this happening for Proton and Mullvad too iirc.

0 comments

notaustinpowers1y ago

You're making multiple conjectures to get to that conclusion, of which the only evidence presented is another company based in a different country than Proton.

theultdevOP1y ago

I'm not making conjectures, these events happened.

That's the flow of how government legal requests work with no-log vpn services.

What do you think "Orders complied with" means then?

Here's an instance of Proton adding logging of an activist's IP Address and Device ID after a request from the French authorities:

https://techcrunch.com/2021/09/06/protonmail-logged-ip-addre...

> French police sent a request to Swiss police via Europol to force the company to obtain the IP address of one of its users.

It's right there in the police report.

notaustinpowers1y ago

1 more reply

xandrius1y ago

Switzerland is one of the few countries not instantly putting up with US demands, so it's not that clear and obvious.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse