I think that maybe tomjen3 is reacting to the (oft-repeated) idea that anyone who says that they don't want kids simply hasn't realised that they're wrong.

I don't doubt that the majority of people want kids. I imagine that at some point hormones will kick in that make me want to, but it hasn't happened. So, the idea of having children is awful, as far as I'm concerned. Yet I am told again and again that "one you look into their eyes...". What if you're wrong, though? Having a child is a one-way street, I'd hate to have one and then realise I don't have the same satisfaction about it that others do.

> In the grand scheme of things, no achievements are significant or meaningful

I'd scale that back a bit and say "it's entirely possible none of your achievements (or your children's) will be seen as 'significant or meaningful' to others". But the achievements of people like Norman Borlaug or Alexander Fleming have had a profound impact on the entire world, so when I see "no achievements matter" it gives me pause.

While my parents would probably not agree, I could make a pretty good case they would have been personally better off without me. The stress of parenting was a major factor in their divorce, with the result that they each experienced years of deep pain, unhappiness, and loneliness. And they are each much less financially secure as they approach retirement than they would have been otherwise. In addition there is a huge range of experiences that they have missed because they needed to be my parent.

Opportunity cost cuts both ways. Parents would say that nonparents don't know what they are missing, but the opposite is true as well. I know couples who decided against kids, who have had amazing experiences together that they could not have otherwise managed or afforded. You might believe that those experiences can't compare to being a parent, but without experiencing them yourself, how can you really know?

Yeah, that is what I am saying -- but then my parents have never been that rational.