undefined | Better HN

0 pointsrunarberg1y ago0 comments

Claiming that a foreign agent supplied money isn’t offensive, but insinuating that a grasroots movement, a foreign agent, and our government is all linked in a global conspiracy, is very offensive.

The US government is perfectly capable of making bad foreign policy all on their own. There may be a foreign agent trying to influence things, but the final policy is ultimately the responsibility of the US government, and the US government alone.

It is far more likely that a US government which is extremely pro-Israel—to the point where it arrests peaceful student protestors for opposing a genocide—that this governments has their own reason to be this extreme. My guess is that they see profits in supporting an antagonizing state—i.e. Israel—in the Middle East. That having this antagonizing state keep the whole region unstable serves some purpose which the US ruling class likes (my guess is oil prices, weapons manufacturing, and inflated influence).

0 comments

bell-cot1y ago

> ...are all linked in a global conspiracy...

If a half-competent intel agency giving some money to a group whose angry behavior seemed to be furthering their aims would qualify as "a global conspiracy"...then maybe every intel agency on the planet is doing global conspiracy 24x7x365, and your definition of that phrase is kinda useless?

Overall - I get the feeling that you are angrily arguing against a variety of beliefs and positions that I'm (at best) barely aware of. And occasionally asserting "2 + 2 = 4"-level facts in a manner suggesting that I disagree with them.

Question - Is there some Wikipedia page which describes the beliefs or position which you assume that I hold, where I might read and try to understand the background for your comments?

runarbergOP1y ago

The old trope I’m referring to is the Judeo-Masonic conspiracy theory[1], is a belief in a global conspiracy of Jews influencing the world order. Modern variation of this trope are right wing conspiracy theories such as Cultural Marxism[2] or the White Replacement Theory[3] (I know, right wing conspiracy theories are not super consistent in ideology).

What I thought you were referring to (and I may be wrong) was the conspiracy theory of the Jewish Lobby[4], or the more innocent—i.e. non-antisemitic variation (and not a conspiracy theory)—the Israel lobby.

While the Israel lobby exists (not to be confused with the Jewish lobby, which doesn’t; or at least not in a way which massively influences US policy), and is probably has some influence at the US government. And while Israel funded astro-turf campaigns also exist, and are probably paying (or otherwise influencing) agent provocateurs[5] at the student protests, to suggest that those are all linked and to hint this is the reason for US government policy, that is getting kind of close to the Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory.

I certainly hope that I’m actually the one that is reading too much into this, and this is not actually what you meant. If so, then I apologize for making these accusations.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theor...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_th...

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theo...

4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_lobby

5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

bell-cot1y ago

1-3: Compared to all the European, Christian, and Capitalist schemes to control the world order - exhaustively documented, widely bragged about, and with loads of (now controversial) monumental architecture built to celebrate its centuries of successes - I'm getting a "let's accuse the Inuits of secretly controlling the Chinese Communist Party" vibe.

4: Historically, what passably-educated or -prosperous group has not lobbied for its own (perceived) interests? How many of the nut jobs (who you're worried about) would start ranting about "Satanic conspiracy" if they learned that the American Dairy Association was lobbying the US Government for regulations to require more cheese on cheese pizza?

5: Please re-read my original comment with the Danger Music turned off. Your interpretation is not quite "I've donated seven pints of blood, and thereby taken control of all of America's blood supply", but it's still quite a stretch.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsrunarberg1y ago0 comments

Claiming that a foreign agent supplied money isn’t offensive, but insinuating that a grasroots movement, a foreign agent, and our government is all linked in a global conspiracy, is very offensive.

0 comments

bell-cot1y ago

> ...are all linked in a global conspiracy...

Question - Is there some Wikipedia page which describes the beliefs or position which you assume that I hold, where I might read and try to understand the background for your comments?

runarbergOP1y ago

I certainly hope that I’m actually the one that is reading too much into this, and this is not actually what you meant. If so, then I apologize for making these accusations.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theor...

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_th...

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_genocide_conspiracy_theo...

4: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_lobby

5: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agent_provocateur

bell-cot1y ago

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse