Senate passes reauthorization of key US surveillance program after midnight (opens in new tab)

I'm not convinced that this is a problem. Lobbyists and special interests already knew how politicians voted, they just knew via old fashioned grapevine methods. There was an information asymmetry between well connected lobbyists and average people. The fact that no longer exists is a good thing, in the long and short term.

I mean, except that many people can’t get either an abortion or IVF. This affects people’s entires lives, it’s not “pretend” unless you are unaffected.

which is exactly why the vote went the way it did. they wanted it passed, they found the votes from senators that were safe, and everyone else was allowed to bail so they didn’t have to deal with it at reelection.

this is normal practice, to provide cover for your party members.

it’s divided by party line because it’s national security. they’re splitting the spoils.

Representative democracy in US is neither representative nor really a democracy.

I would imagine Duckworth has a personal interest in it, given her work history.

Because in reality the two party system is not accurate. It’s rich versus poor, those with power versus those without. Nobility versus peasants. That’s just how it works.

I do not find it surprising that groups of people with many overlapping viewpoints do not have overlapping viewpoints 100% of the time. If anything, I find it surprising that they overlap so frequently.

Furthermore, I think the frequency of that overlap is a major problem for our political system, because it makes compromise impossible.

Really makes you think about whether there are some things that can still transcend partisan showmanship, like national security.

I still am a believer in digital freedom, I'm old enough to have seen the changes in the Internet, and it is a much more malevolent and fucked up force than it was even 15 years ago. Maybe, just maybe, the government needs the power to spy on international targets with oversight.

> crackpots talking about a uniparty, deep state vs the people, etc

It’s not controversial to suggest that the interests of the political class, the special interests that fund their campaigns, and Washington bureaucrats differ from the interests of the public at large. You don’t need to evoke deep state conspiracies to explain nefarious coordination because when career and monetary incentives align then bills like this one get passed.

Maybe they're on to something and we're the crackpots?

One way some people suggest is at least one of the 3-letter intelligence communities will send/drop CP on their computer or phone if that congressmen doesn’t vote their way. If that’s even partially true, then it makes them more powerful than all of the elected bodies.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/2ThIfbGXWTxBITTsj18aBw

If that were true, Trump would have been carried out of Helsinki feet-first.

The only person willing to take them on is Trump. Look at all of the fake cases and mainstream media attacking that followed. I don't think anyone can stop them now. When America is replaced as a world power that day will come.

I'm pretty damn sure you have it backwards. The intelligence crapmunity wants power, and politicians are merely the means to an end.

See what happens when a politician of any stature dares to defy them.

> Without FISA, the intelligence agencies have less oversight and fewer restrictions.

What restrictions are you talking about? Constitutional warrant requirement was sidestepped using this law and you are still cheering here.

They had to add a rule about not using it to spy on Congress. That tells you all you need to know about how often fisa is abused.

> the partisanship is mostly a farce

This was noticeably on display for me in 2020 right after it was determined that Biden had won the election. Lindsey Graham, a Republican Senator, was caught on video in the Senate chamber warmly congratulating and hugging Kamala Harris, a D senator and VP-elect. It was as if they both knew Graham's hyper-partisan antics during the preceding months before the vote was all just an act - a part of the game. I'd bet that he secretly voted for Biden/Harris as well and will do so again.

> D in US is more right than other countries' left leaning parties

I don't think this is accurate. Maybe on healthcare and welfare, sure. But on many social issues, the Democrats are much further to the left than the European left. On issues such as abortion, gender/sexuality, migration, and race, the Democrats are more extreme compared to Labour in the UK, SPD in Germany, and the PSOE in Spain. Even the left in France isn't as socially extremist as the Democrats.

Left and right are different in different countries. In the US, the Republicans are generally pro-building (see where new homes and factories are being built). But in the UK, the left party (Labour) is the one pushing for less onerous planning.

Both sides are mostly rich or put there by the rich. A few populist reps get outsized airtime, but that isn’t the majority of people running the show.

Minor correction

> D in US is more right than other countries' left leaning parties

D in US is more right than other countries' right leaning parties

Have there ever been a point where our law enforcement and intelligence agencies haven't been weaponized by our politicians against their opposition? FBI under Hoover, COINTELPRO, Watergate...

{Montana, North Dakota} --> {Washington}?

I assume any congress person who voted for surveillance has a horrible kink and received photos of it shortly before the vote.

Look up Dianne Feinstein's track record on these matters.

Are you aware the alternative is less oversight? FISA protects Americans

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_Intelligence_Surveilla...

Once enough votes are there to secure the bill, there's no reason for either party to "waste" any more votes of their members on something that can be so politically unpopular with large parts of their electorate.

The joys of the "first past the post" election system. Take your choice of a shit sandwich, or a shit sandwich with pickles. Heaven forbid we actually update our voting system to break up the inevitable 2-party outcome.

Lots of people downvote. Would love opinions.

Elections are for show. D&R officials pick the winners. So much have been revealed in the courts. Vote 3rd party or this will continue.

We were once called liberals. We believed in unalienable rights. Guess what, my liberties are gone, people are dying in wars, and I'm not happy.

If you wanted to be part of this experiment we call the United States, you could gain citizenship by learning and understanding what liberalism meant.

Not anymore, just cross the border, we will give you a debit card, and just wait, because we're going to make you a citizen, and your uneducated self will help us burn this nation to the ground.

No war will go unfunded, no problem will be solved, and we will teach you to hate everyone else. This while everyone is screaming about their abortion access while the Nation goes bankrupt.

We have $34T in debt, every 93 days we add another $1T. If you're all such internet geniuses, you should have figured that soon, and very soon, that starts walking away from the Treasuries' ability to pay just the interest.

Democrats will scream raise taxes on the rich, but guess what, there are not enough of them to tax. They won't agree to cutting spending cuts.

Republicans will refuse to cut the military because we have to defend Taiwan, and against every mythical and imaginary enemy.

But wait, there is more, Democrats want to expand surveillance on anyone practicing the 1A, the 2A, while violating the 4A & 5A.

Everything is about what you can get from this country. No one listened to John F. Kennedy. He was murdered. "Ask not what your country can do for you – ask what you can do for your country..."

It is all about what you can get out of this for yourself. It doesn't matter if you're a billionaire or some guy on the street. You're trying to get what is best for you, not what is best for all of us.

I want what is best for this Nation. I served, my grandfathers served, my children serve now. But F-U when you tell me I'm part of the problem. I understood what I was fighting for, you have no clue why we're even here.

I struggle to nail down my political affiliation because there’s literally just one party. They quibble over materially irrelevant hot button issues to create the illusion of choice, but all the bullshit that robs me and my kids or strips us of our rights is _always_ “bipartisan”, passed without reading in the dead of the night. And yeah the only two choices in our upcoming “elections” here are a guy with profound dementia who shakes hands with invisible people, and a narcissist moron con man who writes at a fourth grade level and capitalizes nouns for no reason. And neither side considers this to be a problem. I’m beginning to think this is some kind of a joke and the ruling class is just trying to see how far they can take it before people revolt.

> There was a real moment in the House where it might not have, at least without a warrant requirement. My Congresswoman was one of the attack dogs on this issue. She thought they would get an outpouring of support. She didn’t. The call sheets registered basically zero calls in support, and several lobbying against. So she caved. (This is a pattern I saw play out in New York years earlier in another privacy battle.)

What's odd/interesting to me is that there's been little chatter of late regarding this. I spend an unhealthy amount of time on HN/Reddit/X and save for a few mild posts (as opposed to alarmist or clickbaity) on the topic, I barely see anything. During the net neutrality thing back when Ajit Pai was around I remember there was massive support. And I don't think I've ever heard of the NY privacy thing you mention. I wonder why it's so.

I think at this point most people just assume that this kind of stuff is a foregone conclusion, because they pass it every time without much of a fight (when you compare it to other matters) despite it being strongly disliked across the political spectrum.

network American (tm)

This the only relevant paragraph under the criticism section of the wiki page:

> The ACLU considers the FISA Act to be unconstitutional for several reasons including: the law was designed to mainly address terrorism threats, but in fact intercepts communications that have nothing to do with terrorism or criminal activity of any kind; and that "the government can create huge databases that contain information about U.S. persons obtained without warrants and then search these databases at a later point."

As I understand, these databases are only created if the other party is foreign, is that not the case?

I asked in earnest but you made this about my intent instead of articulating your views. My conclusion so far is that the HN crowd is jumping on the bandwagon and can't take any critique of the popular sentiment.

I have much critique of the patriot act and other provisions but FISA itself has been around since 1978 apparently. I was merely trying to figure out what specifically were the opposing views because in general, foreign surveillance is not optional.