I recently bought myself a cheap old Android device and installed LineageOS on it. I then removed the play store and browser, and installed a handful of apps that are useful and that I don't get sucked into (personal email, whatsapp, maps, kindle). If I need to (e.g. for a trip) I can load the browser and whatever apps back on
It's the only thing that has worked _for me_ to stop randomly scrolling through rubbish when I'm bored, after having tried parental controls etc. on an iPhone
1. I don't like being interrupted. Land lines drove me crazy when the phone would ring unexpectedly (and it was often telemarketers). So in the early days of people starting to buy cell phones, my view of them was that I would be carrying around this thing that would constantly make noise and interrupt me wherever I went. So I default hated mobile phones in general for the longest time.
2. Once I finally bought a cell phone, and I was observing how much people were using them in general, I felt like it was a device that I didn't really control. On the desktop I use Linux and have since the late 90s. I'm a "power user" who likes to customize everything, use as much FOSS software as I can, I loathe bloatware and don't like sending my data to remote servers. So I really only used a smart phone to text my family and occasionally use a web browser if I was out in public and needed to look something up.
As for #1, I realized that smart phones in general have a killer feature that landlines never did: you can set your default ring tone to silence and then give people you actually care about a custom ring tone.
And for #2, I eventually bought a Google Pixel and installed GrapheneOS. Now I feel less hatred of the device. I still don't use a smart phone as much as most people do, but I feel like it's mine and I'm in control of it. There's no bloatware or spyware, I install the FOSS apps that I want to use and I customize the thing to my liking. It feels like running Linux on my desktops ... I'm the user & the master of the machine. It exists to serve me, not the other way around.
If I didn't use my phone as an mp3 player, reach for a web browser occasionally or temporarily install proprietary apps when I'm on vacation (Uber, My Disney Experience etc.) I'd probably get a dumb phone myself.
Not suggesting you do this, your approach is better I would say. Just for anyone reading, it is possible to do something very similar with a standard Android phone, and roll back if required. I only have a few apps from F-droid installed, and never feel the lack of something. Used OpenStreetMaps once or twice when in a new city for navigating offline with a downloaded map, for example.
After some more research, I think it is possible to achieve the same thing on iOS using management profiles.
I think the biggest thing about the smart phone is important apps like on-call, office reimbursement/receipts, chat applications such as WhatsApp or GroupMe, and the camera. Were it not for these, I might switch. Also I do light reading/research on my phone, which I would miss.
My interrupt driven life is segregated to a WiFi-only device and I am available most of the day. However the rest of the day is my own and I have a barrier to divide the two.
I am still weaning myself away from link/discussion sites like HN (Gen AI is making this easier) but ditched other social media a decade ago and have had no regrets at all.
There really is something about returning to a “slow” lifestyle. Read more long form media. Listen to albums in their entirety. Go for a walk with zero notifications or distractions. Take time, be bored. It’s better for you.
Stop letting your life and worldview be controlled by some algorithm that is not acting in your best interest.
I think we will look back on the decade or so post-smartphone and realize that the never ending feed was the most impactful innovation, and it didn’t do us any good at all.
Same. I particularly like queuing up items to read when I'm on transit, in a waiting room, standing in line, etc. It helps me both be more patient during those odd 3-10 minute blocks of downtime and read a few things that I might not otherwise take the time to read.
I suspect the light phone could fill this roll for me, as far as the reading is concerned.
For the past two years though, I've been using just an Apple Watch, which I was able to connect my old phone number to. It has maps, texting, calling (works best via bluetooth), weather, heart rate monitoring, alarms, email, sports scores, and some music apps. When attached to my wife's phone plan, it costs me $5 per month for all service.
I think the unfortunate reality of dumbphones is that of the folks searching for dumbphones, we all have fairly specific ideas on which features we want and which ones we don't, but there are only like 5 reasonable options available, and most don't hit the mark for many of us. If you want good maps, that rules out many. If you want a camera, that would rule out the watch like I use. If you want reasonable texting ergonomics that isn't speech-to-text, that rules out pretty much all of them
I want the connectivity, I just don't want to... - carry 2 devices. - have a media consumption device with me all the time
And they've prioritized iPhone >> MacBook, so they're likely not interested in encouraging watch + laptop uses.
It's called "Family Setup": https://support.apple.com/en-us/109036, and it lets me use the watch in what is sometimes called "Standalone mode" or "Companion mode" in different apps.
If you go down this route, know that many apps in the app store will not be downloadable, as they don't support "Companion mode", but I can still get everything I personally needed just fine.
As far as the SIM goes, I think I'm using an electronic sim card? I'm not positive
So then I had a smartphone with android crapware and a very bad UI.
It did keep me from doomscrolling at the bus stop, so there is that.
I suspect the "iPhone of modern dumbphones" hasn't been invented yet. My gut feeling is there are about as many reasons people want to use dumbphones as there are people using dumbphones so getting "one dumbphone to rule them all" the same way the apple and Samsung have is a ways off.
It worked brilliantly and if your phone is not a featureless slab of glass you have an insignificant niche of a market.
This idea of “one dumb phone to rule them all” is what every carrier in the world was trying to do in 2005 and we ended up with hundreds of ambitious and doomed designs.
What I miss most about the pre-iPhone era is that I didn’t think about my phone unless I needed to communicate with someone in my real life.
The dumb phone isn’t making a huge comeback. People escape into their smartphones.
But I appreciate this movement that in return offers us an escape from the smartphone
However, one could also note that such an admittedly messy period was needed to arrive at a more fit approach - not so different i suppose conceptually to evolution in general. Also, i suppose that to Apple's credit, their iphone popularized the concept of "phone apps" - whether those exist as websites or actual mobile apps as we know them today - and that explosion of mobile apps triggered more evolution...i feel however that evolution has stagnated a bit and more recently there is an emergence of different changing environment, which may trigger either a new evolutuon...or who knows maybe create a more permanent a split - where one set of users will stick to the conventional smart phones, while the other fork of the split will create a new market of new type of phone users (sort of like current dumbphones but with at least a little more functionality)...and i woiuld guess mobile providers - both manufactureres as well as cellular providers - will choose to meet the market demands or choose to ignore this market. I for one hope to be a customer of some sort of smart phone that is NOT how the current smart phones offerings exist on the current marketplace. I myself want a smaller phone, but i also still like using websites and a few other "smart" features (e.g. camera, mapping, etc.)...and i also want that phone to last many years (do not want to buy a phone every 2 years)...etc. ;-)
Some folks got to experience the world before telephones were portable, and also before mobile telephones came with general purpose computers attached ("before"). To anyone born after, the idea probably seems perfectly natural.
The case for carrying a mobile phone on one's person wherever they go is compelling, for emergency reasons alone. But the case for one carrying a portable computer wherever they go, not so much.
Those generations born before might remember that as kids we used to have handheld video games, with tactile buttons. Of course, kids wanted to bring these games everywhere. But no responsible parent let their kid bring them _everywhere_.
The problems are 1. The camera. I had multiple devices with different levels of camera but it's truly a marvel of our world that I can carry around something that takes cinema-quality photos immediately. Dumb phones do not have good cameras. It's almost useless to even include one, I mostly just used it to remember specific posters/signs like parking.
2. The 'requirement' to use smartphone apps. Certain bank logins need an authenticator app. The Canadian border required Arrive can. Some concerts use apps for tickets. Yes, there are workarounds. Yes, it's possible to live without these.. But I can tell you from firsthand experience it's getting harder and harder, more annoying. This is actually simultaneously the reason I stuck with it so long, as a sort of protest against the direction our society is going.. but alas it didnt quite last.
3. Job changed, I needed to access discord while working at a bar. I realized I was carrying BOTH phones around for almost all of 2023, using my dumb phone for calls and texts, and my smartphone with WiFi to run discord and a few other apps. It felt stupid and was annoying so I bit the bullet and switched my sim to the smartphone.
4. I literally listen to less music. The music player apps were all garbage and it's no longer 2007 so it's not really fun to maintain a library of mp3s on a device. None of the KaiOS devices support streaming music.
If someone comes out with a small "dumb" phone with maps, Spotify, a great camera, and support for signal, Whatsapp, maybe FB messenger, and a basic browser, with good predictive typing and an OS that doesn't lag, I would pay a premium for it.
Edit: one of the most annoying side effects is when I'm in public trying to check maps or write a text and suddenly everyone around me asks "omG is that a flip phone???" and I am not a rude person so I maintain a slight conversation while they pry and ask to see it and show their other friends. Slows down the process of quickly using my phone quite a bit
Edit: Maybe (just now looking at KaiOS development stuff) I could write a morse code keyboard.
I'm in the process of "de-apping" my entertainment: I replaced TV/Streaming with a stack of DVD's and hard drives, and Music apps with cassette tapes.
I'm thinking there's something to the "tactile experience" that vinyl lovers want from their collection, but I just don't have that much room...
Things like Taxis/Maps/Work will be impossible to remove from my smartphone, but this way at least my free time is fully mine again
- a GPS device for car navigation
- a portable hotspot when needed
- rarely a quick browser looking for basic information (like a phone number of a shop)
- rarely a MUA if I need to see, not compose, my mails on the go.
That's is. I've tried a KaiOS phone but it's just a bad hybrid, so I quit it.
[1] macrospy as opposed to classic micro-spy (bugs) that was bought and deployed with significant costs, potentially aleatory reliability and potentially short lifespan by those who want to spy a target. These days PR are able to do the inverse: an expensive and very visible device, bought and kept up by the spied target to enjoy being profiled...
We created the most influential hardware device in the past 30 years (smartphone) and within 5 years it was used to weaponize human vulnerabilities (high jacking dopamine, porn, propaganda, etc...) and has had a huge negative impact on our young people so much so that social media* is now being compared to smoking. I think the takeaway is "Don't trust anything this industry makes because eventually they'll use it to extract profits and harm you in some sneaky way". Kinda like how most people rolled their eyes when tobacco companies push vapes as "safer".
Most of my non tech friends are starting to look at the tech industry like the oil industry. Greedy, hurting society for profits, and delusional. This is sad because most people I work with are amazing and great people who build fantastic products.
* I think social media would be a fraction of what it is today without the smartphone
Big Tech does indeed resemble Big Oil, plus "I'm in this picture and I don't like it" (for many folks on this site).
Reading books, watching videos, social, etc. but also interacting with webforms, etc. are all easier on a larger device and screen.
The phone sounds great though!
Edit: And it's twice the thickness of a normal phone
Now I have an S23 which together with the Zenfone is considered the only real "small" phones, and yet they're still almost the size of a normal phone
I miss my iPhone 5, that thing was so tiny. It was amazing.
Well, if the majority of people voluntarily chose with their hard earned cash to walk around with tablets instead of small phones, then it's just the free market at work, and there's not much you as an individual can do about it.
Apple in the days of Steve Jobs was notoriously opinionated about small phones being the best and preaching on how they're much better for ergonomics, as a response to the assault of Androids with much larger OLED screens, but even they shamelessly caved in and adopted the larger screens against their own previous rhetoric, since you can only piss against the wind for so long before you get wet(as in loose sales and market share to competitors who offer what customers really want, larger screens).
Foldables are now the best of both worlds now if you're open to this relatively niche tech and some of the compromises it brings.
Really seems too bleeding edge for general public.
I do want them to text friends and us for coordinating. Otherwise, they do feel ostracized for not having a smartphone or Apple Watch.
1. Pacific Block app to block images and videos on the web
2. AdBlock Pro
3. Text Font Extension to make all fonts the same on Safari
4. Delete all social media apps
5. Block social media URLs
Surprisingly getting rid of pictures, videos and fonts goes a long way towards making the web less addictive.
People tray to force others on walled gardens must be LART-ed enough to understand.
I try to use signal instead of whatsapp wherever possible, but I think a lot of people just wouldn't bother if I only used signal
Perhaps that's the problem no?
I never owned a Google/Apple device and never used one for more than a few minutes in my life.
I currently use my pinephone exclusively since my +15y old 2G dumb phone broke last year (i broke it while fiddling with it, duh. it would likely have lasted another 15y. it still had its first battery which lasted 5d with moderate phone usage). Before pinephone i used a +15y old 2G flip phone (it had its first battery and lasted +7d) and i loved it, which replaced my htc hd mini and htc hd2 around 2015 (fun times, sigh).
I hate the modern concept of phone and observing the long-lasting effect of addiction on people's social and mental capabilities reminds me how important a mind free from distraction and addiction is. I know it takes a lot of self-discipline to own such a thing and not get sucked into all the dark patterns that lurk you into addiction and drain your brain (and pocket, ultimately, as this is what it's made for).
Every now and then HN features some "i quit my smart{phone,watch} and it was hard" post and commenters romanticize about it, yet i doubt most of them grasp the real implications. Every now and then I whitness the effect of detox/cold turkey with "smart"{watch,phone} on people (usually children, which cant't know better. they are exposed to digital media way too much with way too little guidance/regulation by adults who are exposed too much and who don't seem to know better as well) and it's the classic symptoms.
Unlike other additctive things, while addictive, modern phones seem useful/beneficial at the same time, which is used to justiy excessive use. It's a fallacy, i don't see it. Software run on these devices is not meant to be useful (in the generic sense) but to keep/make you a customer (and they use lot of psy trick).
Do I miss out on things because i don't take part in the "modern" way of interacting with people/companies/state? due to my self-impossed "accessibility issue" (not using "apps", that is)? Sure, but I think * people forgetting my birthday because their facebook app didn't remind them (because I don't provide data to facebook) are dumb, * banks who don't provide any other second factor for auth than their Google/Apple apps are dumb, * (nothing to complain about state here yet, but will probably come later)
To me this just reveals the brokenness of some aspects of social interaction and economy as the exclusion very well applies to elderly people as well (who even struggte with using a computer, so they miss out on even more that can't be done in a purely offline way).
And i'm not even taking into account the macroscopic political aspects of driving social life, state affairs and economy more and more into the walled garden duopoly that is Google/Apple.
Nowadays, Nokia branded HMD dumb phones are available (i have a 4G 2660 flip here, works ok'ish).
