undefined | Better HN

0 pointsTraubenfuchs1y ago0 comments

> VMs like Python and Java require huge effort to embed.

As a (backend) Java dev, I couldn't let that stand. And indeed I found out java now offers a tool called jlink with first class support, that will create a system native (e.g. .dmg on my macbook) executable with the JRE embedded. The javafx example project* I found could be downloaded, built and run from its native release all within less than 5 minutes.

Mind you the Hello World example executable is 80mb and takes 6 seconds to start, but I feel like with the garbage we are used to in regards to desktop applications, this totally holds up -doesn't everything else usually bundle all of chrome? I have also read there are simple command line options to reduce the size to about 50mb.

* https://github.com/mjparme/javafx-template

0 comments

lxgr1y ago

Let's please not justify bad/bloaty plugin/extension runtimes with "at least it's not as bad as Electron".

A framework producing a Hello World application, even if it has a GUI, with a double- or triple-digit size in MB and memory consumption on the same order, is doing something very wrong.

kaba01y ago

With all due respect, that’s just a dumb conclusion. Optimizing for hello world is dumb - if the primary use case of a given framework is larger scale, than it is more than right with such a size.

davidalayachew1y ago

Well, you are partially correct that the tool in question is optimized for larger projects. But the fact that there isn't an option (in the standard lib) for smaller projects is absolutely a problem. I think that is their point.

davidalayachew1y ago

The example in question is very much a "include-more-than-you-need-by-default" problem. So, bloat.

Java lets you include only the parts of the JDK that you need for your app. These parts are called modules.

Unfortunately, all modules MUST include the base module (java.base), which is ~22MB. And if you add a GUI (java.desktop), that's another ~13MB. And since the linked example uses Java FX, there is yet another layer on top of that.

Java is doing a lot of work to bring that number down by a lot. More to come.

obdev1y ago

May I ask how do you solve the problem that almost none of the 3rd party libraries in Java ecosystem use modules?

Last time I checked, jlink tool refused to make use of those "automatic module" dependencies when creating an image.

1 more reply

eviks1y ago

But all of Chrome doesn't take 6 seconds to start

davidalayachew1y ago

jlink is very much out of date. jpackage is the new way to do it. I use jpackage for all of my builds.

Pointing to the 2 most recent projects I have, my Microsoft Paint clone starts up ~0.25 secs, and my Checkers clone is the same.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF1y ago

You're right, embedding a JVM might actually be easy. It's more that I don't target JVMs

dmingod6661y ago

very good alternative is wails

6-10mb single binary

use any frontend js tech you want

automatically go functions exposed to the js side so you don't need to think about making endpoints, it makes and uses a websockets between the binary and the ui

uses WebView2 and not chrome

erhaetherth1y ago

Sounds like Tauri, which is built on Rust instead of Go.

> By using the OS's native web renderer, the size of a Tauri app can be less than 600KB.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsTraubenfuchs1y ago0 comments

> VMs like Python and Java require huge effort to embed.

* https://github.com/mjparme/javafx-template

0 comments

lxgr1y ago

Let's please not justify bad/bloaty plugin/extension runtimes with "at least it's not as bad as Electron".

A framework producing a Hello World application, even if it has a GUI, with a double- or triple-digit size in MB and memory consumption on the same order, is doing something very wrong.

kaba01y ago

With all due respect, that’s just a dumb conclusion. Optimizing for hello world is dumb - if the primary use case of a given framework is larger scale, than it is more than right with such a size.

davidalayachew1y ago

The example in question is very much a "include-more-than-you-need-by-default" problem. So, bloat.

Java lets you include only the parts of the JDK that you need for your app. These parts are called modules.

Java is doing a lot of work to bring that number down by a lot. More to come.

obdev1y ago

May I ask how do you solve the problem that almost none of the 3rd party libraries in Java ecosystem use modules?

Last time I checked, jlink tool refused to make use of those "automatic module" dependencies when creating an image.

1 more reply

eviks1y ago

But all of Chrome doesn't take 6 seconds to start

davidalayachew1y ago

jlink is very much out of date. jpackage is the new way to do it. I use jpackage for all of my builds.

Pointing to the 2 most recent projects I have, my Microsoft Paint clone starts up ~0.25 secs, and my Checkers clone is the same.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF1y ago

You're right, embedding a JVM might actually be easy. It's more that I don't target JVMs

dmingod6661y ago

very good alternative is wails

6-10mb single binary

use any frontend js tech you want

automatically go functions exposed to the js side so you don't need to think about making endpoints, it makes and uses a websockets between the binary and the ui

uses WebView2 and not chrome

erhaetherth1y ago

Sounds like Tauri, which is built on Rust instead of Go.

> By using the OS's native web renderer, the size of a Tauri app can be less than 600KB.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse