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0 pointscamhart2y ago0 comments

I get the sense you have some anger towards the faith, so I hesitate to respond. I'm not trying to argue with you. But I do want to address your points at least from my perspective.

> Money&Power is attraction

The leaders receive an annual "living expense" stipend. It's not publicly available, but there have been data leaks. The last data leak puts it at $130k in 2014 (estimated to be $178k in 2024). See https://widowsmitereport.wordpress.com/comp/. While this is a decent amount of money, given the educational/business success of most of the leadership it's likely less than most would have made had they not given up their career. Does that justify it? That's up to each person to decide. But given that there are ~17 million members of the faith, and 117 people receive the stipend, I think there are more lucrative approaches for making money. To be clear there are other paid employees of the Church too, though no local clergy are paid. If you walk into a typical church meeting on Sunday not a single person there is being paid. The employees work in IT/accounting/etc type roles that a large organization would have.

> The Church has $265 billion in assets. Their power and influence goes way beyond that. The Ensign Peak portfolio alone is over $50 billion and they vote in board meetings.

Investing is a good thing. It's what creates more/better jobs. Why shouldn't the investment managers vote in board meetings? They're acting as a wise investor by doing so.

> They suck money from their members with annual tithing

Members willingly donate as an act of faith. There isn't a bowl/hat or anything passed around. Donations are made predominantly online now too.

> they give only tiny fraction of their income to humanitarian work

I would like to see overall humanitarian aid increased, and from what I understand that is the goal. For context though, they donated > $1 billion in 2022. And this doesn't account for the countless hours members volunteer for free. The money alone is more than what's donated by every country on the earth aside from USA and Germany. See https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/2022-annual... and https://www.statista.com/statistics/275597/largers-donor-cou....

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nabla92y ago

It's the control over that sum of money and power that is intoxicating.

The assets not under their name does not matter. Just like politicians, they have wast control and power.

> Members willingly donate as an act of faith.

And I admire them for that just as much as I admire Evangelical TV-pastors and pyramid scheme marketers. Mormonism was invented by a conman, so it's not surprise that they are good cowmen.

mrkstu2y ago

The problem with that perspective is that there isn't a 'career ladder' here.

You don't volunteer for any position within the LDS church, you are 'called,' so if you happen to be pulled into the higher echelons, it isn't because you've followed your inner Wolf of Wall Street, but that your selfless service (i.e. no money or other reward) has been noticed and seen as a likely good candidate for even more selfless service of serving even more hours unrewarded.

There just aren't many people with a money or power motivated personality that would bother, and again, even if one had ambitions that way, there isn't a job application somewhere in the chain that gets you there.

Money in the Church is a spin-off of a highly educated membership (a large number of members, for instance, donate stock that they've gotten through work, and donate when it is at a much higher price than granted by their work,) with a large base in North America, that ended up with literally more money than they could spend based on their remit- that tithes goes to a narrow spectrum of possible uses. So they've ended up with a situation somewhat similar to the Norwegian Sovereign Wealth fund, where their rules of management of 'sacred' funds just starts adding upon itself faster and faster.

Charitable giving is supposed to come from a specific line item donation, Fast Offerings, and a very large amount of money does indeed go through that pipeline. There are a LOT of temples and chapels being built for the membership, and that has been made possible by the financial strength of the church, but it is a growing political problem that I will find it interesting how they deal with, but a much better problem than the near bankruptcy they had happen around the Great Depression that prompted a lot of the fiscal conservatism that ended up creating this situation.

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