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0 pointsEE84M3i2y ago0 comments

IMO it's a bit more like asking the python community to standardize all the tools listed in this stackoverflow question, which they only sort of succeeded in.

"What is the difference between venv, pyvenv, pyenv, virtualenv, virtualenvwrapper, pipenv, etc?"

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/41573587/what-is-the-dif...

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soraminazuki2y ago

Your analogy would've made sense if Nix had a few dozen implementations to choose from, all being similar in scope and none being definitively better. These are tools that build upon Nix. The whole point of a language is to have tools that build upon it. It's nothing line the Python -env situation where the sole purpose is to mitigate a design flaw in packaging.

OJFord2y ago

Nix comes with confusion built in though, in the official getting started guide flakes are described as controversial, their history explained, criticisms described, only to ultimately say you have to decide for yourself.

Imagine if the Arch or Ubuntu installer halted, told you neutrally / BBC style criticism-focussed even about systemd, and then asked you how to proceed: systemd or sysvinit?

pxc2y ago

I both love this and totally understand why it can be overwhelming for new users. (I had no idea this was a thing because I've been using (and loving) the flakes-centric DetSys installer for so long now.) It reminds me of how in legal contexts, dissenting views are also part of the record (and can be cited in future cases sometimes), or how in the context of traditional commentaries on certain religions (Islam and Judaism come to mind, but I'm sure there are others), the tradition is not just to record and teach a 'winning' side, but to record and teach the entire debate.

Can it be overwhelming? Yes. Is it the kind of thing engineers are looking for? Often, no. But it is a deeply respectful and thoughtful way to treat people and topics imo.

OJFord2y ago

I guess, but the huge ambiguity of it to me, that I think should be resolved, is is it the future of the project? However controversial it was and respectful it is to give me the choice, my choice is that I want to do what's going to be best supported by the first party, what does upstream expect me to do, especially as a newcomer just trying it out.

(Again, rather. When I first tried it out flakes didn't exist. And actually that makes it even more confusing because the nix profile, nix env stuff I dimly recall is apparently deep plumbing nobody's really expected to use directly any more.)

Maybe the answer is no flakes, because it's disabled by default after all. But then it really does seem like everybody uses flakes now.

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soraminazuki2y ago

OJFord2y ago

Imagine if the Arch or Ubuntu installer halted, told you neutrally / BBC style criticism-focussed even about systemd, and then asked you how to proceed: systemd or sysvinit?

pxc2y ago

Can it be overwhelming? Yes. Is it the kind of thing engineers are looking for? Often, no. But it is a deeply respectful and thoughtful way to treat people and topics imo.

OJFord2y ago

Maybe the answer is no flakes, because it's disabled by default after all. But then it really does seem like everybody uses flakes now.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse