This is the kind of societal harm that does warrant (apparently) harsh punishment, because if it gets out of control there is just no way to resolve it.

It doesn't have to be prison-prison; but something like that does call for maybe a Nordic-style prison that isolates society from the low-level but consistent harm.

It's all very tragedy of the commons.

I do want to say that we, as a society, place people in the position where they are more likely to do things that hurt everyone far more than it would be to lift them out of whatever position they’re in. It’s hard to make progress on this because, like, the homeless person knows just as well as anyone else that they shouldn’t make a mess, and the person who can’t afford to eat knows just as well as anyone else that they shouldn’t steal toiletries from stores. And many people in those situations do actually avoid doing that, which is great. But what would be even better is removing factors that make it more likely that people will behave poorly or justify it to themselves. I feel really good about trips I make on the train rather than the car but it’s partially because I have the time and money to do this pretty easily.

> Call me harsh, but that behavior should merit a serious prison sentence.

Not harsh, just lacking creativity and losing sight of what prison is for.

For every piece of litter dropped, the sentence should be to pick up 10 more. Make criminals fix the problems they cause.