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0 pointssmooc2y ago0 comments

I'm a hiring manager in the Netherlands. I would be happy that you ran away, because you would not have passed the bar.

The hiring process I like to have in place is:

1. HR Interview: see if there is a fit with the company 2. Skill check. Do you have the problem solving, hard skills and communication skills needed for the job. 3. Team fit. Do you like to drink a beer (or non alcoholic) with us and we with you. Can you hold a conversation about something else than work.

6 people are involved. 2 per step. Everyone has a veto. I as a manager do not have special power. I've had people fail most of the time on #3. E.g. a guy that did not talk the woman of the team. She veto-ed. We were really looking for his skills, but he was a jerk.

I don't think you would have passed #3 either. You can have l33t coding skills, but if you cannot make it work in a team it is basically useless for anything of size.

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6 comments · 3 top-level

FirmwareBurner2y ago· 2 in thread

> Do you like to drink a beer (or non alcoholic) with us and we with you.

Why is that relevant for work? Are you looking for labor, or for a date/drinking buddy?

Social and communication skills are important but I can be professionally communicative for work ralted topics, and still not want to have a beer with you after work, because it's my free time and I have other interests than you and other things to do.

Unless the company choses to have the beers/drinks during working time in which case by all means, if you pay me to drink on the clock I won't say NO.

tiimbz2y ago

It might be relevant, because labor isn't just about working in a silo. A significant part of work might be done in a team setting, where communication, feedback loops, constant interaction, collaboration, code reviews, team spirit, and more are important.

I'm not suggesting should offer your free time to help cultivate this, but in my experience it does help with building a good work relationship with your colleagues - either outside of work or even at lunch - which then improves the outcome of the labor.

lnxg33k12y ago

> because it's my free time

This is exactly my frustration

lnxg33k12y ago· 1 in thread

I have been my whole career a great team fit, I’ve had bosses inviting me for Christmas at their home when I couldn’t travel to my home town, I’ve had coworkers inviting me to their child baptism and their wedding, I only don’t pass the bar for social interaction when its enforced by clowns out of context

Ah I had party at my place, and friends of coworkers invited wanted to have me at their home for weeks before I left the country because thanks to me improved the amount of friends they had despite being born there

I can't tell you all the things where I have had a confirmation that I am great with almost all kind of people.

Except landlords and hiring managers.

Why are you even in a technical interview process?

Even if someone is not capable of having a beer or social interaction, what's the issue?

You're there to punish people who have different personalities, have a different background? Your company is so shallow that it can't digest dealing with someone different? Are you so soft skinned? Is the system now punishing introverts?

Ah as working part of a team, my last manager in NL said they were glad to have me because I was the only one non introvert that would ask questions during meetings. They let me go because I wouldn't go to social events anymore. You know what were the social events? People mimicking italian gestures, talking about cappuccino and pizza with pineapples (I am italian).

FirmwareBurner2y ago

>Why are you even in a technical interview process?

Probably the Peter Principle.

>You know what were the social events? People mimicking italian gestures, talking about cappuccino and pizza with pineapples (I am italian).

I chuckled out loud from that.

Yeah, forced social gatherings at work are the worst. The problem is if those gathering are part of the "company culture" then refusing to go will automatically ruin all your promotion perspectives in the company, as most other people also attend just to save face, rub shoulders with upper managers and show conformism.

If you don't go to those shitty gatherings but most people are, then you're signaling you're a non conformist, and rigid companies don't like to promote non conformists.

seec2y ago

And this kind of nonsense is basically why EU tech scene will forever stay uncompetitive. I find it interesting that ASML got to where it is from the remnant of some Philips labs but I’m not sure they will manage to stay in top for long if some other tech center decide to go and build something competitive.

Overall the NL/BE work culture is not desirable from experience.

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