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0 pointsthriftwy2y ago0 comments

Surzhik spoken everywhere east of Dnieper, in Kiev and and Odessa certainly is a dialect continuum with Russian. Most often it's simply Russian with a Swadesh list of 100 words replaced by their Ukrainian counterpairs, whenever possible. The rest being left as is.

Nobody really cares what these far western ukrainians are up to. Russians don't really want them. Maybe with the exception for one dude from Vinnitsa.

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5 comments · 1 top-level

sergeykish2y ago· 4 in thread

Eneida by Ivan Kotliarevsky [1] (1798) is first literary work published wholly in the modern Ukrainian language. Ivan Kotliarevsky lived in Poltava, East Ukraine [2].

Valuev Circular [3] (1863), Ems Ukaz [4] (1876) banned the use of the Ukrainian language in print. Religious books on Ukrainian were banned century before [5].

Census [6] (1897) maps Ukrainian language majority far beyond Ukraine current borders. Annexed by RSFSR, Russified by force. Continuum of ethnocide by Moscow.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eneida

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Kotliarevsky

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valuev_Circular

[4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ems_Ukaz

[5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronology_of_Ukrainian_langua...

[6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire_census

thriftwyOP2y ago

    Еней був парубок моторний
    І хлопець хоть куди козак,
    На лихо здався він проворний,
    Завзятіший од всіх бурлак.

So you are saying this is not a dialect of Russian? Any Russian can understand 50% of this text right off bat, 80% after a day of effort and 95% after a week.

Nationalists like to draw fantasy maps. Want to see mine?

sergeykish2y ago

Claims census 1897 is "fantasy map" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Empire_census

Roma, Romania, do you claim Italian is "Romanian dialect"? Muscovy was Rus colony, grew under Golden Horde, renamed in 1721. Rus Grand Prince Володимѣръ Свѧтославичъ — Ukrainian name Володимир (Volodymyr) not Moscow Владимир (Vladimir). Language of Kyiv can't be dialect of its former colonies language.

Slav languages are mutually intelligible. I've checked spoken Slovak, Polish, Croatian, Bulgarian. Do you claim these are "dialects" of Moscow language?

Eneida translated to Polish:

    Eneasz rzutkim był młodzianem,
    Podobnym całkiem do Kozaków,
    Radzącym z każdym złem spotkanym,
    Zawziętszym nawet od burłaków.

"50% of this text right off bat"

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oneshtein2y ago

No, it's other way around. Russian (Russish) language was based on Russian Church-Slavonic language, which is based on Old South-Slavonic language. Ru with many words borrowed from Ukrainian (Russian) language.

For example, Ukraine holds word record by number of folk songs, while I was able to found none of folk songs in Russian (Russish) language after years of searching. Folk songs exists in Russia Federation, but they are not in Russian (Russish) language. Cuban Cossack Choir - folk songs are in Ukrainian language, Ural Cossack Choir - Ukrainian, for example.

mlindner2y ago

You're mixing written versus spoken language. Russian people largely cannot understand any Ukrainian when spoken. Polish people on the other hand can make out bits of Ukrainian.

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