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0 pointstroupo2y ago0 comments

> There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI.

Except... Literally everything else. Imperative Delphi code from early 2000s or indeed Turbo Pascal code from 1995 will run circles around HTML any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

0 comments

hpeter2y ago

My browser can't run Delphi or Turbo Pascal.

troupoOP2y ago

I was responding to this: "There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI."

In general that is false statement. In particular, when it relates to browsers, HTML is the local minimum of what can be done to describe the "UI".

Because HTML (well, DOM) is the only thing to describe the UI in the browser, and it's abhorrently awful. It can barely describe a page with static text and some images (and even then tools like Lighthouse will warn you that "you have too many elements on the page" if you dare go beyond 100 or so paragraphs). For the actual UI (yes, UI: complex layouts, interactions, dynamic parts, states, hundreds of complex interactable objects) HTML is unbelievably incredibly bad. Unfortunately that's the only thing you have running in the browser [1]

[1] Well, there's canvas (Google Docs switched to canvas because of limitations of the DOM etc.) and WebGL (pretty much every in-browser graphics program out there). But they suffer from having to implement literally everything from scratch.

Edit.

Just to show how inane "HTML is superior to everything is", here it is barfing at my static web site that only contains text and images (and a total of 9 Youtube and maps embeds): https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GF__tHjXgAAZGUA?format=jpg&name=...

Yes. It chokes on the insane number of .... 943 elements with a maximum depth of 8.

Apropos of nothing, here's a screenshot of a highly dynamic interface like Ableton Live with hundreds of dynamic elements https://cdm.link/app/uploads/2023/11/CleanShot-2023-11-15-at... that the "technical superior" HTML would not even be able to represent, much less render.

In reality it's very hard to find anything that is inferior to HTML when it comes to representing and rendering UIs.

PaulDavisThe1st2y ago

Even after all that, you still haven't made explicit the thing that needs to be explicit for any of this to make any sense:

    ".... for UI *IN A BROWSER*"

I know it's convenient to forget the millions of us who spent years and continue to spend hours implementing UIs outside of a browser context, but it certainly doesn't feel very polite.

2 more replies

WeAddValue2y ago

So, like an election in Russia, there's only one candidate in the race?

wruza2y ago

As a russian, I like this comparison, because it’s really on point and how I feel every time someone says:

- But HTML is lingua franca!

- There’s no alternative, that means it’s perfect

- You don’t need js/json/etc, just use HTML

- HTML is not that bad

- You can choose JSX, but it’s mostly HTML

immibis2y ago

"There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI" and "There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI in my browser" are two different statements; anyway, until relatively recently there was XUL.

troupoOP2y ago

Yes, they are two different statements. However, the comment I was responding to was making general claims and even used QML and XIB as examples.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

hpeter2y ago

My browser can't run Delphi or Turbo Pascal.

troupoOP2y ago

I was responding to this: "There's literally nothing better than HTML for UI."

In general that is false statement. In particular, when it relates to browsers, HTML is the local minimum of what can be done to describe the "UI".

Edit.

Yes. It chokes on the insane number of .... 943 elements with a maximum depth of 8.

In reality it's very hard to find anything that is inferior to HTML when it comes to representing and rendering UIs.

PaulDavisThe1st2y ago

Even after all that, you still haven't made explicit the thing that needs to be explicit for any of this to make any sense:

    ".... for UI *IN A BROWSER*"

I know it's convenient to forget the millions of us who spent years and continue to spend hours implementing UIs outside of a browser context, but it certainly doesn't feel very polite.

2 more replies

WeAddValue2y ago

So, like an election in Russia, there's only one candidate in the race?

wruza2y ago

As a russian, I like this comparison, because it’s really on point and how I feel every time someone says:

- But HTML is lingua franca!

- There’s no alternative, that means it’s perfect

- You don’t need js/json/etc, just use HTML

- HTML is not that bad

- You can choose JSX, but it’s mostly HTML

immibis2y ago

troupoOP2y ago

Yes, they are two different statements. However, the comment I was responding to was making general claims and even used QML and XIB as examples.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse