I cannot take this project seriously. Dope art, though.
The funny thing, is that it is a website, web applications can be built for developers, the scrolling doesn't lag on my device, the spinner doesn't bother me, and it completely respects my navigation controls. I think you have a "you" problem, and enjoy projecting it at anything that doesn't fit into your mental model of how the world "should be". Go solve that, and you can come back and be a productive participant in these conversations.
On several of my devices that are plenty fast enough for pretty much anything else, the scrolling is still pretty laggy.
Looking at CPU usage I see that having this page open, eats an unnecessary amount (>70%) of CPU for what appears to be a static page, so there's definitely something not quite right there.
By having less moving parts, it is much easier to provide a Linux operating system that works (more) reliably on many different machines.
And if you don't mind me also asking, what features are described by the term "cloud-native"?
If you have an AMD Framework the gnome-power-profiles manager has the inprogress patches from AMD already included and are probably better. Upstream Fedora is also in the process of evaluating `tuned` so in the future there may not even need to be a separate image for Framework.
Rebase instructions here: https://universal-blue.org/images/
I guess I'm fortunate in that I already made for the endgame of that quest, which is NixOS.
Everyone should read Eelco Dolstra’s paper IMHO.
ostree > NixOS
NixOS tries to tame the complexity of the Linux world by making the world declarative; a quixotic approach. Ostree is just git+Docker for your operating system image. Also known as "worse is better".
Nix covers not only that but all user-installed libs, apps, etc.
Less is not more in this case. It’s like Mongo vs. Postgres where there are things you can do with Postgres that are either impossible or highly complicated to do in Mongo… due to the lack of a relational engine and JOINs.
The fact that people don’t want to understand JOINs should not be an argument for MongoDB!
It’s just the functional declarative paradigm as applied to package management, going all the way to the metal. This paradigm has succeeded better than the procedural/OOP paradigm in just about every realm of computing where it’s been applied, other than 3-D graphics processing. (Example: All of Whatsapp is run off a single server and 20 engineers. Erlang/BEAM stack.) If you can’t see, or aren’t on board with the latter, then you won’t understand or see the former.
If you’ve ever preferred to style HTML using CSS instead of JavaScript, then you’re starting to see it.
Yeah, I know now it's much more usable because it now integrates my host-spawn (https://github.com/1player/host-spawn) tool, but the easiest setup is to have a toolbox/distrobox container for work and dev, where you install all your tools.
I have been using an Arch Linux container (that starts at boot) with emacs, nvim, the myriad of LSP tools that are only found in AUR, exported with `distrobox-export` so I can start them from my dock.
Flatpak is for everything else (even Steam), but dev tools, editors and any other package should be installed inside a regular pet container.
We found that people struggle with the pet toolbox pattern so we send them right to the devcontainer pattern. This is an area where we differ from Fedora. It should just come set up out of the box.
> What if I want something like KDE or another window manager?
> Bluefin is an opinionated GNOME experience. However Universal Blue provides a maintained set of base images for anyone to be able to make a custom image. We hope Bluefin acts as an inspiration for others to build their own communities around user experiences. For example check out Bazzite if you want a great KDE gaming experience, similar to SteamOS.
The Bazzite link 404s, but there is info at https://universal-blue.org/blog/2023/11/08/bazzite-20/ and https://github.com/ublue-os/bazzite. Seems mostly focused on SteamDeck.
Couldn’t agree more with this! :)
I’d be curious to know what aspects you enjoy about Bluefin that has you using it over, say, stock Fedora Silverblue (especially any features that may not be mentioned in the OP)?
What are the best places to hang out to follow along?
take your pick :)
Discourse: https://universal-blue.discourse.group/ Discord: https://universal-blue.org/mission/ (link on left side, click discord) GitHub: https://github.com/ublue-os/
Due to an unrelated issue, switching back from bluefin to the main Fedora tree was just an `rpm-ostree rebase` and a reboot away.
EDIT a few minutes of reading and I seem to get it now. this project and some of the others (Silverblue specifically but also devbox and devpod) have been under my radar but I think I'm going to try this out for a bit.
`rpm-ostree` grew OCI support, which lets us build the entire thing with a dockerfile and github actions, which is much easier, we can run the entire thing out of github.
It would be awesome if you could use Debian for this but alas, no one has made a `deb-ostree`. If someone did it wouldn't be too hard for Universal Blue to publish Debian-based images.
The reason it had to be Fedora was because I can't do this with Debian or Ubuntu. Fedora had the tech but I still enjoy the Ubuntu/Debian part of the OS. Since distrobox exists I can replicate a reasonable facsimile of the native distro with an ubuntu container and a more ubuntu-like desktop.
https://projectbluefin.io scrolls in a really really janky way specifically on mobile firefox. It seems to work correctly on desktop firefox, and mobile chrome. It probably performs poorly in other low resource environments as well.
Even on a desktop browser its easy to stimulate noticeable CPU usage merely by scrolling and almost 400MB of RAM usage explicitly and only for this tab.
Using the 3G profile in firefox dev tools it takes over 40 seconds to load. What is remarkable is how long it took to actually load while only in fact transferring 5MB which is much slower than one would expect even when throttled to 750Kbps.
Even at the DSL profile (2Mbps) its a fairly shockingly slow 16s to load.
Incidentally 2.6 of the 5 is just a png file that could easily be reduced to ~900k without noticeable degradation.
Compare that to the linked blog post which scrolls normally without noticeable CPU usage, loads almost instantly while progressively loading the images and uses about 80MB of RAM.
I must say I love how it looks but it is a triumph of form over function that probably works only if most prospective users are viewing this on fast devices with a fast connection. Bounce rate for websites goes up enormously as one goes over 3-4 seconds.
If your website needs a loading screen and its not a desktop app running in a browser window stop whatever you are doing and throw it away and rethink it.
Given that i'm on NixOS atm i'm quite interested in this aspect.
> Bluefin is a custom image of Fedora Silverblue by a bunch of cloud-native nerds.
Fedora Silverblue is an immutable variant of Fedora[0]
One bit of advice for the creators/maintainers: stop saying “cloud native”. It’s effectively meaningless, and definitely confusing. But most importantly, it’s irrelevant. Start with customers and work backwards. And in that process, ask if they really care about “cloud native”. They don’t. So don’t water down or distract people away from a great thing, please.
I later picked up a framework (exactly 2 weeks ago) and have been daily driving Bluefin on it and the experience is exactly what I'd want from a daily driver. The durability and mindlessness of a Chromebook for updates, options to install all my tools/utilities, and disposable/composable development environments built right into the base system.
Reminded me of NanoBSD, which is a readonly version of FreeBSD.
