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0 pointsV-eHGsd_2y ago0 comments

they were ready. "fly heading XXX, vectors for visual 28R", is them saying, "i'm ready for you to land". What norcal (not SFO) was not prepared to do was accommodate the extra wide gap that lufthansa's company policy would've required.

it was up to lufthansa to tell approach that they're not going to be able to accept the approach in use. It's being advertised on the atis that they would've been able to pick up in the air long before they got near the airport. (well, 10+ minutes before this interaction started anyway, they can probably get d-atis anywhere).

i'm sure it was said in the follow up video, but lufthansa knew what they were offering at SFO and if they needed something different they should've spoken up much sooner.

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6 comments · 1 top-level

lmm2y ago· 5 in thread

> i'm sure it was said in the follow up video, but lufthansa knew what they were offering at SFO and if they needed something different they should've spoken up much sooner.

How are they supposed to know that an ILS approach - a completely routine procedure - is not available? If the problem is them not giving ATC enough warning, what process is there for telling ATC ahead of time? What was SFO going to do if it clouded over, close the airport?

nradov2y ago

All of that information is published ahead of time by KSFO (and every other major airport) including runways in use, traffic patterns, minimum separations, available approach types, and how things will change in bad weather. Everything is available to the pilots and dispatchers ahead of time and in updates during the flight.

pdonis2y ago

> What was SFO going to do if it clouded over, close the airport?

No, land planes at a slower rate (about half) because they can no longer land two planes side by side on the parallel runways. On a day when the weather is known to be cloudy and that is factored in up front, that's not a huge problem.

On a day when the weather is clear and planes are landing at the higher rate, it is a huge problem.

lmm2y ago

> On a day when the weather is known to be cloudy and that is factored in up front, that's not a huge problem.

> On a day when the weather is clear and planes are landing at the higher rate, it is a huge problem.

But it can get cloudy any time in SF. So suddenly needing to switch over to ILS operations should be something they're set up to handle pretty routinely.

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V-eHGsd_OP2y ago

> How are they supposed to know that an ILS approach - a completely routine procedure - is not available?

it's not that the ILS wasn't available, it's that the atis would've said

"VISUAL APPROACH, RUNWAY 28L 28R IN USE"

and the lufthansa crew would say, "huh, we need something different than that". in aviation if you want something non standard, you need to let air traffic know so they can put you in their plan. If you don't tell them different, they're going to plan for you to do what's being advertised.

> What was SFO going to do if it clouded over, close the airport?

then SFO would've advertised the ILS (checks atis) like they're doing right now ...

lmm2y ago

> and the lufthansa crew would say, "huh, we need something different than that". in aviation if you want something non standard, you need to let air traffic know so they can put you in their plan. If you don't tell them different, they're going to plan for you to do what's being advertised.

So they should have, what, called them when they were back over the east coast? Genuine question. They filed the flight plan, they requested the approach they needed when they got there (which again, is a completely routine one that SFO uses every week), it sounds like they were sending all the communication that's expected?

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6 comments · 1 top-level

lmm2y ago· 5 in thread

> i'm sure it was said in the follow up video, but lufthansa knew what they were offering at SFO and if they needed something different they should've spoken up much sooner.

nradov2y ago

pdonis2y ago

> What was SFO going to do if it clouded over, close the airport?

On a day when the weather is clear and planes are landing at the higher rate, it is a huge problem.

lmm2y ago

> On a day when the weather is known to be cloudy and that is factored in up front, that's not a huge problem.

> On a day when the weather is clear and planes are landing at the higher rate, it is a huge problem.

But it can get cloudy any time in SF. So suddenly needing to switch over to ILS operations should be something they're set up to handle pretty routinely.

2 more replies

V-eHGsd_OP2y ago

> How are they supposed to know that an ILS approach - a completely routine procedure - is not available?

it's not that the ILS wasn't available, it's that the atis would've said

"VISUAL APPROACH, RUNWAY 28L 28R IN USE"

> What was SFO going to do if it clouded over, close the airport?

then SFO would've advertised the ILS (checks atis) like they're doing right now ...

lmm2y ago

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