Tell HN: Marcus.com' automated fraud detection locked me out of life savings

- Start by filing a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau[1]

- Advice patio11 gave me (adjust for your own situation):

> 1) Unlikely to convince them to re-open the account but if you want to try your best bet is on paper to Sallie Mae; enclose copious documentary evidence of identity, source of funds, and purpose for opening the account. You can address the packet to Legal or Chief Compliance Officer; they can messenger it over to Fraud.

> 2) Assuming primary goal is getting $20k expeditiously: Reg E letter to Sallie Mae’s Legal Department or Chief Compliance Officer or similar. Argument: you made an electronic transfer into the bank; it was not processed properly (not credited to you); you require them to either reverse transfer or return the money via a method convenient to them. Send on paper.

> 3) Check that Chexsystems didn’t get a file opened on you as a result of this; would be unfortunate. More on your local Googles.

- (patio11 used to ghostwrite to banks as a hobby[2])

[1]: https://www.consumerfinance.gov/complaint/

[2]: https://www.kalzumeus.com/2017/09/09/identity-theft-credit-r...

The root of the problem seems to be that the account has a non-functional phone number and you don't actually reside at the address listed on it (or even in the same state or country). I'm not surprised that it is raising red flags in their system. I'm pretty certain that they are running afoul of plenty of reporting and tax regulations by letting you continue to bank there.

I can't offer you advice for your present situation, but after it is resolved you need to move your money to a bank that lets you open an account with your up-to-date European address and phone number. Offering services to non-residents is a very complex topic for any financial institution, and many/most will not support it at all.

Commenting here for sympathy.

My only advice is to find every regulator from the local to national level that governed financial and consumer issues where you used to live in the US. State level ones are usually the right balance of having enough resources and heft to fight for you, yet still small enough where your complaint might reach a person. If all else fails, contact the state attorney general for the state you used to live in, many have online forms. File complaints everywhere you can. Eventually the bank will be forced to reply to some of these regulators and CC you on snail mail.

When all else fails, do your best to guess email addresses of those at the bank and work your way up internally that way. Cite dates, support ticket #s, transaction #s, etc to prove you're the real deal and won't go away until it's fixed.

If you're persistent enough it will get resolved.

It sounds like theyve flagged you, you're not really going to get anywhere using people on linkedin.

You'll have to get your account details updated and let them know you've moved out of the US and close your account. They'll only respond to you after a while after they've reviewed your account for fraud though.

Also you would be better off using your local European bank account when you close your account for the withdrawal, as opposed to using Wise.

Someone at Bogleheads forum had issues with Marcus too. Looks like Goldman Sachs Marcus are doing everything possible to stop bleeding funds.

https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=415611&...

Talk to their support and escalate. Complain to as many regulatory agencies as you can, send copies to Marcus and GS legal departments. Make noise and shame them on online forums and social media. Find a lawyer to file lawsuits against both Marcus and GS.

have your brother in law add an old cellphone to his family plan with a new line/number, and put that into your name. I'm a gadget freak, I have half a dozen phones, easy to rename one.

Also, in the US, you could achieve your goal by sending instructions to the company with a "notarized" letter. The Notary is a person licensed by the govt to swear that the signature is your signature, and you can send them the written instructions and they have to follow them, it has the same force as you being there.

On an international basis, you can achieve the same "notarization" by visiting a United State Consular office and they will check your local passport etc. and certify under United States law that you are the person sending the letter. https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/records-and-authe... (aha! it's called an Apostille)

It's a legally binding thing that, for example, someone with your power of attorney can act on your behalf. Companies have to accept mail, etc. People can be incapacitated, and that doesn't give a company a right not to respond.

I'm sorry if this is blunt, but it is clear from the terms that your use case is explicitly not allowed:

  Any natural person using the Service must be at least 18 years of age. The Service may only be used in the United States, including its territories, or on a United States military base. The Service is controlled or operated (or both) from the United States, and is not intended to subject us to any non-U.S. jurisdiction or law. The Service may not be appropriate or available for use in some non-U.S. jurisdictions. Any use of the Service is at your own risk, and you must comply with all applicable laws, rules and regulations in doing so. We may limit the Service’s availability at any time and without notice, in whole or in part, to any person, geographic area or jurisdiction that we choose.

Especially that since you're in Europe most US banks won't service most Europeans (directly) because of mutually-incompatible laws between the US and EU. In Marcus' case this has always been clear at the terms you have agreed to (I have to trawl through old versions of the agreement and that exact paragraph is always there).

I believe that Leftium's advice (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38136366) is solid, but the first line (Unlikely to convince them to re-open the account) is accurate here. First-line customer service will almost certainly not have the powers to do anything about this, and the silence is probably because someone have reviewed the account and confirmed that your account is too weird (phone number is dead and address is inaccurate, reasonable possibility of running afoul of anti-money laundering laws which triggers the "no tipping-off" (https://aml-cft.net/library/tipping-off/) provisions).

Beyond CFBP, you need to determine the consequences of transitioning from a US person to a non-US person. There are tax and reporting consequences and the possibility of bad support. This should have been done before but do not worry about “losing” your money, just maybe not being able to access it at the moment.

Apart from US laws (if you do not have any interest on the account you are fine), you might have a complex situation at home. The US is not part of the CRS, so they are probably not sharing stuff with your local government. However, if you plan to transfer this money at some point to Europe, you better fix this situation now. Your country might perceive this money as undisclosed income.

Apologies for sneaky off-topic, but I can't resist to think I can fall victim of situation like this with my Wise account. I live in Europe and have Wise accounts in United Kingdom and in Australia. I'm currently contemplating if I can use these to receive money from my customers in these countries. Since I have not built a substantial savings yet, a delay longer than a month will quite literarly kill me. Somebody mentioned here, that to offer bank account for non-residents is very complicated thing to do, I wonder if Wise is doing this well enough to take the risk...

Maybe brother in law can help you find a local lawyer, and vouch for you to secure a one on one phone interview. The lawyer only has to be in your brother-in-law's state. This sounds like an identity issue with broken promises. It will cost some money, but if your 'life savings' doesn't amount to a great deal (except to you) you might be able to secure a cheap resolution. Lawyers love to make threatening noises and if there is documented hardship to you a good one might even smell added 'damages'.

"The only way they can prove my identity is by sending a text to a phone number registered in my name."

I don't understand this part - that would be trivial for anyone to either achieve or fake. ...

In the United States in 2023 you can get a live, mobile SIM-backed phone number registered in any name you like.

Have your brother-in-law buy a used pixel4 ($80) and a USMobile SIM kit ($0) and then install SMSForwarder on the phone after registering service in your name.

Then he just plugs it in and leaves it on the countertop and you receive SMS in your email inbox.

Why not get a number from google voice or us mobile and use that?

Either you wait for the bank, or you talk to a lawyer.

The employees they'll let you talk to on the phone are probably telling the truth that they can't do anything.

You can purchase and activate a US esim and then receive texts over wifi globally, no need to be in the USA Many providers do this, I use Tello. It’s us$7.50 a month

right when it happened you should have had bil open a local us line and ported ur number back and then done 2fa. maybe that would have avoided this?

Goldman never had any business running a consumer bank.

Calling a lawyer in the state where the opposing party is headquartered/organized seems like it would be a good start.