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0 pointsthrowawayqqq112y ago0 comments

I think you are mixing "corruption" with "mistake" in some parts. Everyone has ideals and everyone can make mistakes, this does not make you corrupt. When a bad outcome or disadvantage comes to light and wether the guy in charge reacted _reasonably_ or not to it, is where corruprion begins.

To repeat: simply beeing convinced that bicycles are the future of urban transit is not corruption.

The other examples you give are clearly corruption, because there is more involved in the decision making than plain reasoning or ideology (which again, is ok).

> in democracies, [it begins and ends with] the voters.

> "How we run institutions" is one of the current Big Challenges on humanity. How we do that currently really doesn't cut it. We have to find ways to do better.

You are agreeing with me here but you are still not concluding like me, that humans are the ultimate root of all our human made problems. So when you say

> Facts not in evidence! Democracy as we run it currently is a fantastic breeding ground for this kind of corruption.

You have to extend your criticism to any other governmental form and not singling out democracies!

Do you agree with my previous statement too?

> A democracy is the only form of government that enables peacefully revolutions by design.

If so, you also have to conclude, that education and critical/constructive discourse is the only basis for lasting solutions. This is my reasoning, im discussing on HN with you.

imo, no governmental form will be perfect but only educated citizens in a democracy will get a chnce to fix it.

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creer2y ago

Mistake is overbought, at some degree of habit it's malice.

So, in the example of "beeing convinced that bicycles", yes it's corruption. The traffic engineer could discharge their office faithfully WHILE advocating and showing up at city councils. At a council, (1) in one intervention - as a citizen - promote bicycling while (2) in another intervention - as traffic engineer - promote a balanced response which serves all constituents (who mostly drive and have an equal right to have their time not wasted). You can be convinced of a proper long term course while serving your office diligently - that much is demanded by this thing called "honesty". It's not okay to ignore the facts on the ground when you are supposed to do your job. That's not mistake, it's willing blindness. Which currently makes a great defense when all else fails: "I was carried away by my enthusiasm; I apologize" - and gets a pass far too easily. Discharging one's office, doing one's job, demands a little more - at least when it's a job of responsibility.

> no governmental form will be perfect

We should still strive to do better because our current pace of progress is shameful. As for democracy, humanity runs many different forms of claimed democracy. The bar is not very high. The choice is not between democracy and autocracy - it's more subtle than that. And I'll agree that autocracies that succeed do it through blind luck - which is not good. Not good either, that is.

You throw in education: Yes! And here again we (humanity) don't do very well. For example in not giving much weight to civics, practical life skills, logic, ethics.

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