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0 pointsjosevalim2y ago0 comments

> it is rare that a language doubles its market share (assuming it's not in the vicinity of zero) after its first decade

JavaScript, Python, and Ruby are all counter-examples. Erlang and Haskell might as well.

I don't think time plays such an important factor. A language may exist for 20 years and then a large corporation or an all encompassing framework draws attention to it, leading to unforeseen growth.

> In other words, if you're not at 5% market share by age 10, chances are low you'll ever reach 10%.

This won't happen for 99% of programming languages and it shouldn't be a goal or even a comparison point. For example, on GitHub language stats [1], only three languages have more than 10% activity, only 7 within 5% activity. Pick other rankings, market share related or not, and you will find similar numbers. Tiobe lists SQL, Go, and PHP all below 2% and I don't think anyone could argue they failed at market success.

> So getting to 1% and generating hype is not as hard as showing stable and growth and getting a large community that sticks with you for over a decade.

Given all of the above, I strongly disagree. Getting to 1% is incredibly hard.

[1]: https://madnight.github.io/githut/

0 comments

pron2y ago

> JavaScript, Python, and Ruby are all counter-examples. Erlang and Haskell might as well.

I would say that only Python is a counterexample, and possibly Ruby although its super-success wasn't long-lasting. Erlang and Haskell have been hovering at under 1% for several decades.

> For example, on GitHub language stats [1], only three languages have more than 10%

I meant 10% as a symbol. Languages very rarely double their market share after a decade (unless they're hovering around zero, in which case they're in the noise anyway), and almost never after 15 years.

Actual market shares numbers are probably best captured here: https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-prog...

josevalimOP2y ago

> Erlang and Haskell have been hovering at under 1% for several decades.

I am well aware that I am nitpicking at this point, but putting a restriction on your metric that rules out 99% of programming languages makes the comparison quite limiting. :D

You are ultimately only speaking about languages that are already quite popular, because even languages like Kotlin, Dart, and Swift (all endorsed by billion dollar companies) are hovering around zero by the metric you provided, and I would have a hard time classifying them as a noise. And languages like Go and SQL are still well below the 5%-10% reference point.

pron2y ago

Obviously 99% of languages never make it at all, but Rust's adoption rate is worse than what the languages at the Go/Kotlin level -- i.e. those languages that aren't superstars but have achieved very respectable success -- had at that age. More importantly, most languages reached their ultimate "tier" by age 10 and virtually all (I think all but Python) have reached it by age 15. As of right now, its adoption doesn't suggest Rust is poised to replace C++, let alone do better. But yes, I agree that its prospects are looking better than Haskell's or Erlang's.

And again, the 5%/10% numbers were symbolic. 10% was meant to represent Go/Kotlin levels of success.

HerrBertling2y ago

Oh wow. I did not expect this question to gather THAT much feedback, but I absolutely did not expect you showing up in the comments. Thanks for your work – it brought me to appreciate the functional programming viewpoint even with a first few steps into the language. It is a way different viewpoint compared to what I see in my daily work and will surely influence how I code in the future :)

josevalimOP2y ago

Hi HerrBertling! I am glad you are enjoying Elixir and learning new things, I appreciate the nice words and the opportunity to be a positive influence. :)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 pointsjosevalim2y ago0 comments

> it is rare that a language doubles its market share (assuming it's not in the vicinity of zero) after its first decade

JavaScript, Python, and Ruby are all counter-examples. Erlang and Haskell might as well.

I don't think time plays such an important factor. A language may exist for 20 years and then a large corporation or an all encompassing framework draws attention to it, leading to unforeseen growth.

> In other words, if you're not at 5% market share by age 10, chances are low you'll ever reach 10%.

> So getting to 1% and generating hype is not as hard as showing stable and growth and getting a large community that sticks with you for over a decade.

Given all of the above, I strongly disagree. Getting to 1% is incredibly hard.

[1]: https://madnight.github.io/githut/

0 comments

pron2y ago

> JavaScript, Python, and Ruby are all counter-examples. Erlang and Haskell might as well.

I would say that only Python is a counterexample, and possibly Ruby although its super-success wasn't long-lasting. Erlang and Haskell have been hovering at under 1% for several decades.

> For example, on GitHub language stats [1], only three languages have more than 10%

Actual market shares numbers are probably best captured here: https://www.devjobsscanner.com/blog/top-8-most-demanded-prog...

josevalimOP2y ago

> Erlang and Haskell have been hovering at under 1% for several decades.

I am well aware that I am nitpicking at this point, but putting a restriction on your metric that rules out 99% of programming languages makes the comparison quite limiting. :D

pron2y ago

And again, the 5%/10% numbers were symbolic. 10% was meant to represent Go/Kotlin levels of success.

HerrBertling2y ago

josevalimOP2y ago

Hi HerrBertling! I am glad you are enjoying Elixir and learning new things, I appreciate the nice words and the opportunity to be a positive influence. :)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse