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0 pointsbeefield2y ago0 comments

> It's almost silly how simple the real solutions are.

Simple? Real? Let me give you some numbers. Let's use electricity as a proxy for consumption[1].

Average global per capita electricity consumption is currently about 3000 kWh/a. To put that into context, you can drive your environmentally friendly EV (20kWh/100km) roughly 15 000 km (10 000 miles) and use no more electricity at anything during the year.

US electricity consumption is ~12 000 kWh per year. So if you want to not force third world to poverty forever and keep the global consumption at current levels (I'm not yet discussing decreasing global consumption, just keeping it at current levels). US folks would need to cut their consumption by 75% to allow the poorer to get even.

Sorry, but that is neither simple nor real. If we want to see the poor countries to rise to even mediocre living standards, we will face a huge increase in global consumption. You do not need to like this (I do not), but it is a fact. So please, stop whining about the need to reduce our consumption and start supporting initiatives how we can produce lots more energy and stuff sustainably. Because we need to do that.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_electrici...

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bmitc2y ago

There's a lot in this comment that I think responds to things I'm not saying and provides some arguments that are not clear cut. I don't see how electricity is a good proxy for consumption and waste. What does electricity usage in the U.S. measure for manufacturers in other countries making everything and the processes used to do that? Also, In the U.S., poverty and consumption and wealth inequality are all increasing. Thus, increasing consumption to pull people out of poverty does not work logically, at least in the U.S.

> If we want to see the poor countries to rise to even mediocre living standards, we will face a huge increase in global consumption.

Why does reducing overall consumption in developed countries and reducing conspicuous and vacuous consumption everywhere hurt developing countries? There are different levels and definitions of consumption and energy consumption is not the only one and not what I meant or described.

> we can produce ... stuff sustainably

Producing things more sustainably was part of my point.

I guess maybe the final point is clearly defining what we mean by consumption. I view consumption that extends beyond providing a moderate way of living, access to healthcare and education, social services, and transportation to be harmful, and it's that excess that I think should be reduced everywhere. There's no reason why developing countries should not be able to learn what a travesty much of the developed world is and adjust what it means to become more developed.

YeBanKo2y ago

We are a family of four and yearly electricity consumption with working from home was around 6000 kWh. Your numbers for the US consumption are wrong.

beefieldOP2y ago

1. Did you calculate in your per capita share of commercial/industrial use? 2. Feel free to provide more accurate numbers with a source.

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