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0 pointsnot_your_vase3y ago0 comments

Define "usable". I have both Pinephone and Pinephone Pro, though I use them mostly to tinker with them (hah, I'm in the middle of compiling a new custom system image for the OG).

Pro's hardware is definitely better than the original, but the software part is still very alpha. Many driver is still not mainlined, and are very buggy (especially the 4G modem/GPS...) If you ask me, the main issue is that everyone is trying to create a desktop OS for the devices, with the same flaws. Most applications are simply not optimized for mobile. And of course half of the services are Python - which is fine on desktop and server, but on a battery powered embedded device you want to save those expensive cycles... but I start to rant.

PinePhones are fun (and affordable) toys if this is your thing, but it stops there.

And of course the developer community likes new stuff. Pine64 just released a small mountain of new tablets, everyone is flocking in that direction.

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5 comments · 3 top-level

megous3y ago· 2 in thread

What drivers are buggy in particluar?

Not sure what you mean about 4G modem/GPS - neither does really have a driver on Pinephone. It's just a normal USB modem device you can also buy and use separately in a PC.

GPS just sends some NMEA data over virtual serial port, there's nothing about it that can have a buggy driver. It works just like any other GPS device that can't get assistance data. It's slow to lock on and doesn't work inside.

not_your_vaseOP3y ago

Right, regarding the modem, saying the driver is buggy is inaccurate. The firmware is what unusable. I tried all available versions, including the closed source ones and biktor's many hacked versions too. The only difference is the time it takes to crash. Some versions just crash every 4 minutes. The best ones only crash anytime between 4 minutes and 6 hours. (It reboots automatically, which takes around 20s + PIN code + network registration..)

One thing none of them does is to work reliably for any period of time.

And of course, it gets too hot to touch, sometimes to the point when I rather literally remove the battery for a few minutes in fear of heat damage. I really wonder what was the rationale using the same modem in PPP also...

Then we have the Wifi/BT driver, which actually works once one finds the binary blob required, but they can't be turned on/off independently. But this is the smallest bug. At least tethering works, as long as one turns off all power saving features (and as long the modem doesn't crash).

On a personal level, I wonder if the camera drivers can be even made mainline compatible, with the "2 physical sensor with 1 sensor interface" solution, which kind of requires a custom tailored application also to work...

I really find Pinephones a lot of fun, but only as a hacking playground. I take one of my Pinephones with me all the time, but I also keep a phone that I know I can rely on.

megous3y ago

From the back: :)

> "2 physical sensor with 1 sensor interface"

This is no problem for media API. sun6i-csi driver for the sensor interface just forces the userspace to select only one sensor at a time. The API is made for this. All camera solutions on phone require custom tailored solutions to work. That's just a difference compared to dekstop USB webcam space.

People try to abstract the details in a library (eg. libcamera) or just hardcode it in their app. API for ISP and all required data are just not introspectable, so it has to be hardcoded somewhere in userspace. That's the nature of mainline API.

> WIFI/BT

BT/Wifi should be controllable independently using software, no? Like on other phones. At least I never noticed any issues in this direction.

> Modem crashes.

Sounds terrible. Not sure what's that about. I've never experienced any modem crashes, but I don't have a typical setup. I don't use eg25-manager, but my own kernel driver to manage modem power and my own test software to control the modem over AT interface for SMS/calls. I also don't use mobile data.

Maybe I should try to stress-test the modem a bit more.

Thermal management is lacking, for sure. There are several heat sources in the phone, and there needs to be some software that actively throttles down parts of the phone based on total knowledge of phone activity, and not just simple localized decision-making based on current temperature of individual part. (User on call or using a lot of mobile data, throttle down the main SoC CPU heavily, disable charging or limit severely, etc.)

hutzlibu3y ago

Well, by "usable" I mean a phone, that I can use as a phone.

So thanks, you explained very well, that it is still a tinker toy.

I seriously could do with not optimized software, I also don't mind fixing some things. But if the drivers are still buggy, then I still just see no base to consider it as a phone or something that can become a usable phone in the near future. A shame.

MarcusE1W3y ago

Regarding a mobile first OS I find this project super interesting. Not finished but it shows one approach to use NuttX and LVGL and explains it in detail.

https://lupyuen.codeberg.page/articles/lvgl4.html?1

https://github.com/lupyuen/pinephone-nuttx

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