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0 pointsconstantcrying2y ago0 comments

>I don't know what college you go to where that is a thing, but it would be exceedingly rare.

German technical university. I was a tutor there. AFAIK this is normal.

As part of the first semester you take linear algebra and analysis, starting out with the basics of formal logic. Of course the courses are less focused on proof writing than the mathematics "major" courses.

I should also point out that German universities have very loose entry standards (except when places are very rare compared to applicants) and use the first two semesters to filter out students. These courses are often designed to have around a 50% failure rate.

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l33t2333722y ago

> As part of the first semester you take linear algebra and analysis, starting out with the basics of formal logic

There is not enough time to learn the basics of formal logic and linear algebra and/or analysis in a single class, but I think what you’re referring to is an introduction to proof techniques like induction, modus tollens, quantifiers, etc.

Every math and computer science department in the US that I’ve ever heard of teaches these topics, but I wouldn’t call it a formal logic class.

constantcryingOP2y ago

For me basic formal logics means learning the symbols (conjunction, disjunction, implication, equivalency, not, etc.) and the rules of inference to maniuplate these symbols and using these rules to prove new things.

How can you teach analysis without that anyway. It is absolutely essential for set theory and how would you e.g. define the reals (in a "proper" math course, not engineering) without a good understanding of set theory?

If you don't believe me, here is a link to the contents of a first semester engineering math course from some german technical university: https://page.math.tu-berlin.de/~joswig/teaching/notes/Joswig...

The symbols should be enough to tell you what the contents are.

Tainnor2y ago

> For me basic formal logics means learning the symbols (conjunction, disjunction, implication, equivalency, not, etc.) and the rules of inference to maniuplate these symbols and using these rules to prove new things.

That's really only baby logic. Which, probably, is what will be sufficient for most mathematician most of the time.

A real first introduction to formal logic would introduce an actual formal proof system and go at least as far as proving completeness of first order logic.

constantcryingOP2y ago

>That's really only baby logic.

Instead of (literally) infantalizing the name, you could also call it basic formal logic.

1 more reply

l33t2333722y ago

That level of logic taught to every mathematics and computer science student, and it’s really not what I was thought others in this thread were talking about.

Solvency2y ago

Your student filtration system sounds like a long and expensive waste of everyone's time.

constantcryingOP2y ago

Not really. First year courses usually have hundreds of students in large halls. There is some more effort as you need more tutors, but that is basically it. (Students usually do not live on campus)

The enormous upside is that all students are judged equally on their ability to academically succeed in their chosen field. I think US university admissions are ridicolous for many reasons.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

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l33t2333722y ago

> As part of the first semester you take linear algebra and analysis, starting out with the basics of formal logic

Every math and computer science department in the US that I’ve ever heard of teaches these topics, but I wouldn’t call it a formal logic class.

constantcryingOP2y ago

The symbols should be enough to tell you what the contents are.

Tainnor2y ago

That's really only baby logic. Which, probably, is what will be sufficient for most mathematician most of the time.

A real first introduction to formal logic would introduce an actual formal proof system and go at least as far as proving completeness of first order logic.

constantcryingOP2y ago

>That's really only baby logic.

Instead of (literally) infantalizing the name, you could also call it basic formal logic.

1 more reply

l33t2333722y ago

That level of logic taught to every mathematics and computer science student, and it’s really not what I was thought others in this thread were talking about.

Solvency2y ago

Your student filtration system sounds like a long and expensive waste of everyone's time.

constantcryingOP2y ago

Not really. First year courses usually have hundreds of students in large halls. There is some more effort as you need more tutors, but that is basically it. (Students usually do not live on campus)

The enormous upside is that all students are judged equally on their ability to academically succeed in their chosen field. I think US university admissions are ridicolous for many reasons.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse