On the one hand you have your "diversity enforcement policy" which is arguably racist. On the other hand you have black Rust developers but never any black speakers or organization leaders (in a community which doesn't hesitate to toot their diversity horn) which also arguably racist. So what gives?
>Personally, I was with the author until that quote. If I was a member of that organisation I too would not be OK being represented by a person that makes such horribly offensive personal opinions known regardless of their technical expertise.
You could ask yourself why something that someone else might see as a simple (minor) disagreement caused such as strong reaction in you.
What is the average level of commitment and capability of <T> in the overall community?
If that is low relative to the community distribution members of <T> may not feel comfortable seeking speaker slots simply because they understand their relative ranking and do not want to potentially disrespect the group or humiliate themselves.
This is completely normal behavior for all <T>. Even in large subgroup most people do not consider themselves worthy of speaking at top conferences.
Then the intersection between "Black people" and "people willing to speak on a Rust conference" is extremely small and nothing can be done about it. Well, nothing that's not already being done I mean: like encourage everyone to be in these circles because nobody is going to show you the door for doing so, and nobody is going to discriminate you.
What else should one programming language foundation be doing? They are not a world government that can and should fight systemic racism. They can only encourage people to participate. Which they already do.
> You could ask yourself why something that someone else might see as a simple (minor) disagreement caused such as strong reaction in you.
Throwing the ball at each others' hands is never gonna achieve anything. I can try answering for your parent poster: because the average white people are getting sick of being blamed of being racist while a lot of places are being racist towards them because they are white and somehow the problems of racism worldwide are our fault.
I've never in my life discriminated anyone on any race or gender grounds and I also don't plan to ever do so. But constantly guilt-tripping whites that they should "fight for more representation" is not how you win them over for your cause. You only alienate them. Tell me this: "please never exclude people from conferences based on skin color and gender" and I'll immediately agree with you, we shake hands and the world became slightly better. But tell me "it's a little more complicated" without giving any context or explanation while still implying it's somehow my fault that there are no Black speakers on a Rust conference, and you definitely have lost me for your cause. I might even start fighting against you, if I allow my monkey brain to take over that is, which I actively strive to not do.
Now, you ask yourself why did you try to shift blame. It's toxic. We can all be better than this. Let's start somewhere already. We got so much more in common than you seem to think.
Or, if I completely misconstrued your comment then I am truly sorry. But I do get pissed off every now and then. We should all just stop blaming people for things that 95% of the time are just not there. :(
Perhaps. That is an explanation that fits your worldview. But whether it is true is not so easily determined.
>I've never in my life discriminated anyone on any race or gender grounds and I also don't plan to ever do so. But constantly guilt-tripping whites that they should "fight for more representation" is not how you win them over for your cause. You only alienate them.
In your view _you_ and many other white people have never discriminated anyone and you have never witnessed it and therefore there is no racism. And that might very well be true (except for the last part, racism is obviously still out there).
But let's imagine a country with people living in it. Some can afford to go to university and some are poor and cannot. Now the university is not to blame for their lack of funds. They can truthfully claim that nobody who has sufficient means will be turned away. Also the majority of those poor people are white. The university simply says, we are not discriminating against any whites, they simply don't have any money! And this is also true. But they could also offer some scholarship which would greatly benefit some people who can't afford to go to university.
It seems you and parent are interpreting someone saying, there aren't any black people in your conferences and you should take a look at that, as saying: there aren't any black people and you are to blame for this and you are racist. Maybe some are actually saying this. But this (people being racist) doesn't need to be the case and I hope my example sheds some light on this. This is what I meant with the situation can might be complicated.
I think indeed as you said we don't need to blame people so much. Instead we can try to look beyond blame, and beyond our own perspective, and see that even without us being racist or doing anything wrong, there can be some injustice and the situation can be improved. Then if we throw our hands up and say well we ain't the government that is one thing, but being against someone else's initiative that may improve the situation is another.
You just demonstrate how hard it is to discuss with you because NOBODY SAID THAT. I even included pieces of context in my parent (and other) comment(s) and you still ignored it.
Racism and various other discriminatory actions absolutely exist. Why do you accuse people of lack of basic common sense? Do you think you'll make allies this way?
And finally, why is the Rust Foundation the place to try and fight stuff all over the world? It comes across as opportunism; previously oppressed people using any and all channels as a megaphone. Rust Foundation is inclusive which is already HUGE progress. Can we leave it at that and move on? I wanna be back to a programming language foundation, being, you know, a PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE FOUNDATION.
Outrageous, I know. Surely I will again be made to look like I am the ultimate nemesis of... somebody.
> and see that even without us being racist or doing anything wrong, there can be some injustice and the situation can be improved.
I am asking again: what does that have to do at all with the Rust Foundation? It's a programming language foundation, not a world-wide charity fund-raiser that aims to eliminate all exclusivity around the world.
IMO let's get our scopes right first. Otherwise all discussion flies out the window, as has been evident throughout the several threads made on this topic on HN already.
There’s lots that could be done that don’t fall in to your description of affirmative action.
Invitations could be extended to people to submit proposals for a talk. This already happens, but maybe the circle gets expanded once it’s evident that the circle has been too small. The simple act of asking is often enough to make people feel welcome.
I also call BS on the claim that you’ve never discriminated against someone. No person is a saint like that. Every human and sentient creature has inherent biases.
Maybe you’ve never actively discriminated, but you most surely have passively done so at some time in your life. For anyone to claim they are perfect in this regard is only fooling one’s self.
That you then go on to say that it’s not there 95% of the time withoit any actual reflection on the matter perhaps shows that you’re not well versed enough in the dynamics of race and gender relations to make that call.
