> The rate of recidivism in Norway is around 20%. So only 1 in 5 end up back in prison, while the majority of people (4 in 5) don’t return to prison within a few years.
> This is a sharp contrast to even the neighbor countries like Sweden with 61% and Denmark with 63%. American prisons tend to have around 60 – 75 % in most states, but it varies a lot by state.
And here is a NYT article on the same prison: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/29/magazine/the-radical-huma...
One could start by not putting as many folks in prisons and jails. You don't have to be a wealthy country to do that.
Having people in prison for a shorter period is still cheaper than having them come back again and again. For smaller crimes people are allowed to go home for the evenings/weekends and the biggest punishment really is loosing the ability to work.
I guess that this can prevent people from completely loosing touch with outside world which makes it easier to go back to a normal life.
Example article on crimes vs equality.
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2018/06/07/the-star...
Norway GNI per capita: 83k PPP USA GNI per capita: 70k PPP
But then we'd have a different article, talking about yet a different injustice.
I don't see how having poor and resentful prisoners helps getting them back into society.
>Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
(The 13th Amendment to the United States Constitution)
Personally I think you need to NOT brutalize people if you want them to be rehabilitated. But you also SHOULD NOT enjoy prison. And deterrent is important (for both rehabilitation and preventing crimes in the first place).
It seems to me that being in prison should be enough punishment.
But I see now that the prison system in the US is not really focused on rehabilitation.
>> Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
You're misreading that. The exception applies to involuntary servitude not slavery.
If I'm wrong, prove it: point me to the prison website where they offer convicts for sale.
Brejvik probably has a better life in a Norwegian prison than a poor addict has in the USA. So if a poor addict can improve their life by going to prison, it's not much of an incentive to stay out of jail...
OTOH, Norway is one of the best nations of the world to be poor in. It's still no picnic, but being poor and free in Norway is still much better than being stuck in a "soft" Norwegian jail.
But certainly it looks like it is time to amend that exception with further requirements for the humane treatment of prisoners.
No. Slavery is reckoning certain people as ownable pieces of property, and prison labor is not that.
My uniforms when I worked for the US military were made by people we US citizens enslaved (glad to see other references to the 13th amendment here); I am not proud of that fact. I learned about it in school, as a teacher sitting in on a class taught by the social studies teacher.
If I were in prison I would want: A sense of hope that I could learn and grow and continue to be a full and dignified human until I die. To this end, counseling, teaching, work that pays fairly, and general social, emotional, and intellectual rehabilitation within my zone of proximal development (teacher jargon per Lev Vygotsky) would be appropriate, and worth taxpayer expense, regardless of what I did to end up in prison.
Frodo told Gandalf he wished Bilbo had killed Gollum when Bilbo had the chance, and Gandalf said no- we don't know what good anyone might do in their lifetime. This convinced me that the death penalty is wrong. Banishment is better, and even better with rehabilitation efforts. I accept the risk that a relative few people in a well-designed system will still do more harm than good.
Because only (insert your favourite US enemy here) violates human rights. US is the land of the free, the oldest democracy (whatever that means).
And because the NSA and CIA and other 3 letter agencies employ a lot of people whose task is to spread propaganda.
Of course the admins will claim this isn't the case, but there's no reason to believe them, and lying is commercial companies' standard modus operandi.
This is bog standard HN moderation and has zero to do with "business partners", whoever those are.
Edit: please see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36005783 also.
No, it's flagged because it's one of those controversial political topics that often leads to polarized slapfights and flamewars.
And that's proven by the a number of inflammatory, flamebait comments already in this thread.
Even when you called it "torture" the majority were perfectly fine with it after 9/11 in polling data.
This is actually a good argument, and one of the reasons I've been abstaining from criticising western countries lately. But now the world consensus on Russian invasion has been reached, support for Ukraine is working full speed, so I think I can return to my regularly scheduled programme.
Oh, wait...
Prison reform is not wanted by the voting majority (unless it's towards harsher punishments and worse conditions). This is on the voters all the way.
[1] - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_Amendment_to_the_...
Not really. That amendment abolished all other forms of involuntary servitude too (except as punishment for a crime).
If that exception weren't there, it'd outlaw pretty reasonable things, like sentences of "community service."
I am not sure how well unionization would work, though I suspect the various mafia leaders in prison and the Aryan brotherhood leaders who are in prison would love to have a way to legally organize large groups of prisoners.
