story

Ask HN: Retired engineers, are you being asked to return to work?

84 pointsBJBBB2y ago16 comments

Several years ago, I was pushed out of my full-time job, along with all other engineers over 55. Similar situation for four of seven colleagues in our consulting consortia, where we do occasional side jobs. Our consortia previously numbered 13, but four had got their fill of American employers and went back to their home countries, while two 'near-shored' themselves into Mexico and Argentina.

For last three months, phone has been ringing and email is full of both contract and full-time offers. I have doubled fees and am more selective (fishing and reading and harassing my wife are my preferred tasks). None of this made sense when you look at reports of the thousands of people being kicked to the curb (but maybe that's particular to coders and not hardware engineers). But I did see this:

businessinsider.com/baby-boomer-retirement-surge-spark-forever-labor-shortage-jobs-workers-2023-5

Older workers, are you being sought after? Do you think that gen X and Y will have less stressful employment situations, or will employers always be able to mitigate worker costs?

16 comments

steve_adams_862y ago

I’m not an old older worker (37), but I’m a generalist (I’ve done design work in the past, heaps of frontend/UI work on the web and mobile, plenty of backend work, and now a fair amount of work around embedded systems and hardware). I’ve been getting a lot of attention from recruiters very suddenly, but I’m noticing it’s much different work from the last five years or so. I’d say the majority of it is in technologies related to health, which isn’t really where I want to be.

The AI hype train hasn’t touched me, and the hype trains of yesteryear have gone totally silent. The work I used to get approached about most (full stack web roles) have eerily dried up.

It’s nice to know there’s work available, but a little concerning that I’m not finding what I’d like to be doing most.

Virtually all roles I hear about or see are senior too, and occasionally but rarely intermediate. I have a huge amount of sympathy for people just getting started right now — it seems like a hard time to get a foot in the door.

than32y ago

> Virtually all roles I hear about or see are senior too...

This is the general trend of things. Experienced workers displace younger workers because they are more productive and cost the company less in training.

Overall the number of jobs available causes this displacement, the experienced workers would prefer to be paid for their experience but haven't found jobs and so compromise. You always have companies hanging out a hiring sign even if there is no real active position available.

There's a book about it called 'The Pinch'. We'll have some real societal trouble once the experienced people start passing. This is two generations in the making. Generally speaking no one wanted to have a discussion about it when it could have mattered. Things are so integrated now; you'll basically have a generational die off of knowledge.

As for the AI hype train, its largely not hype anymore. If by hype you mean doomsday talk, that's actually quite accurate. There's a good overview video done on youtube that does justice to what it can or can't do, and the issues that need to be discussed as opposed to the hyperbole and propaganda flowing about.

The main point being, the advances are happening so quickly now that we can no longer react to any potential problems. Any engineer will say that is a bad situation to be in; a runaway train being appropriate metaphor.

steve_adams_862y ago

I suppose in my mind the hype is warranted with AI, but maybe I’m not using the word properly.

I’m concerned about where it’ll take us. On one hand, people talk about how calculators didn’t make it so everyone was unemployed and we’ve had automation for 100 years and so on… But like you mentioned, these technologies weren’t runaway trains. They made slow but steady progress. The latest AI leaps have made fast and dramatic progress, with no obvious reason to see it stopping. The changes will impact certain knowledge workers first, but I have a strong sense that it will reach out further into blue collar work perhaps sooner than we’d first guess.

That only touches on fears about employment and wealth disparity. It doesn’t begin to touch on micro and macro threats on a sociopolitical level. These are strange times.

than32y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoVJKj8lcNQ&ab_channel=Cente...

This is the video I was talking about. My main background is in Systems Engineering, and my main concerns are the fact that we can't react, coupled with the socioeconomic part of it. I've got a decent background in economics as well though I wouldn't call myself an economist. I've yet to meet a real economist, most just use it as a prop to lie and support credibility for something that clearly isn't true when you dig into the details.

You really don't need a super advanced AI to do irreparable damage. All you really need it to do is stall the economic cycle and people end up doing the rest when they can't get food. Its one of those cascade failures that has repeated throughout history fairly regularly. Food Shortages->Unrest->Collapse->New Government, and that's what keeps me up because its so simple, but like any dam you don't see what led to the collapse until its really too late to do anything. Its worse when its pointed out, and no one pays attention.

fxtentacle2y ago

I'm not even retired yet, but I see a clear increase in demand for experienced generalists since the beginning of 2023.

My guess would be that many companies are now trying to restructure from large "agile" teams back to the small groups that get actual work done.

clnq2y ago

I am not retired yet (so feel free to ignore my N=1) but I have also observed that the previous companies I worked for are reaching out with blank checks.

I think it has to do with RTO and layoff morale hits decimating the senior workforce, compounded by companies not being willing to train staff anymore and just cannibalizing each other for seniors. Another compounding factor is simply the seasonality of recruitment in tech. Recruitment efforts wind down for Nov - Jan, and peak in May - Jun and Oct; specifically after the quarter's financials are done.

These short-term factors could also exist within a larger trend. But it's good to remember that they are present.

sneed_chucker2y ago

Is it possible that you have specific skills with a stack or technology that the younger engineering cohorts aren't familiar with?

fm26062y ago

Great question and I'd like to add one:

When you started your consulting business where you advertising or through networking to find clients?

BJBBBOP2y ago

0. I am mostly a hardware guy. Process automation, ATE, manufacturing, and product and process compliance. Banging out code ranges from 10% to 50% of each job.

1. My experience and skill set is not that common. Most EEs and MEs have eschewed this field because it has, outside of FAANG-type companies, paid less.

2. If you go the formal accreditation route, getting up to speed in EMC/Product Compliance/Corporate Conformity, depending on the industry sector, is approx 4 to 7 years.

3. Most of my original client contacts came from attending various IEEE Society symposiums. New business contacts are through former/current clients.

pyuser5832y ago

I’m older, but switched careers so not very experienced. Mid level.

I’m getting tons of reachouts.

mwint2y ago

As someone in a similarly weird position (young, but doing this since I was very young and fortunate to have been place in some senior-if-you-squint positions), I’m curious what “mid level” means to you. What kind of things on a resume do you think make you mid level vs. junior (and what’s missing to be senior)?

pyuser5832y ago

I’m self taught. I enjoyed messing around in computers and learned programming.

My first job was as a senior developer. I knew the stack, other devs didn’t, so I had to teach them. I knew how to negotiate. So I started as senior at a big corporation.

I bumped around startups for a while. I’d regularly go from “developer” to “senior”. Then the company would bust. Then repeat.

I’m currently “non-senior” at a unicorn, but have more responsibility than I did anywhere else (unless you include 5 dev shops).

Eventually I’ll hit “senior, for real” where I won’t be willing to go back down.

What I really need is some mentoring (which I’m getting). Making the jump to “senior for real” means getting planning and management skills I don’t have, and won’t get from YouTube.

I’ve benefited from really good mentoring in the past, and plan to do so again soon.

Spooky232y ago

I’m hiring retirees at half pay, they double dip and get some benefit enhancing goodies. We are having trouble hiring IT type roles. It’s easy to get $18/hr people or $70/hr people. The middle is brutal.

ttymck2y ago

What does half pay mean? Half hours?

devKnight2y ago

if you need some frontend(React, Vue) work done, i'm in that mid range. Email in my bio.

em-bee2y ago

i can do $50/hr, but max 20hrs/week, fully remote :-)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

16 comments

steve_adams_862y ago

The AI hype train hasn’t touched me, and the hype trains of yesteryear have gone totally silent. The work I used to get approached about most (full stack web roles) have eerily dried up.

It’s nice to know there’s work available, but a little concerning that I’m not finding what I’d like to be doing most.

than32y ago

> Virtually all roles I hear about or see are senior too...

This is the general trend of things. Experienced workers displace younger workers because they are more productive and cost the company less in training.

steve_adams_862y ago

I suppose in my mind the hype is warranted with AI, but maybe I’m not using the word properly.

That only touches on fears about employment and wealth disparity. It doesn’t begin to touch on micro and macro threats on a sociopolitical level. These are strange times.

than32y ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoVJKj8lcNQ&ab_channel=Cente...

fxtentacle2y ago

I'm not even retired yet, but I see a clear increase in demand for experienced generalists since the beginning of 2023.

My guess would be that many companies are now trying to restructure from large "agile" teams back to the small groups that get actual work done.

clnq2y ago

I am not retired yet (so feel free to ignore my N=1) but I have also observed that the previous companies I worked for are reaching out with blank checks.

These short-term factors could also exist within a larger trend. But it's good to remember that they are present.

sneed_chucker2y ago

Is it possible that you have specific skills with a stack or technology that the younger engineering cohorts aren't familiar with?

fm26062y ago

Great question and I'd like to add one:

When you started your consulting business where you advertising or through networking to find clients?

BJBBBOP2y ago

0. I am mostly a hardware guy. Process automation, ATE, manufacturing, and product and process compliance. Banging out code ranges from 10% to 50% of each job.

1. My experience and skill set is not that common. Most EEs and MEs have eschewed this field because it has, outside of FAANG-type companies, paid less.

2. If you go the formal accreditation route, getting up to speed in EMC/Product Compliance/Corporate Conformity, depending on the industry sector, is approx 4 to 7 years.

3. Most of my original client contacts came from attending various IEEE Society symposiums. New business contacts are through former/current clients.

pyuser5832y ago

I’m older, but switched careers so not very experienced. Mid level.

I’m getting tons of reachouts.

mwint2y ago

pyuser5832y ago

I’m self taught. I enjoyed messing around in computers and learned programming.

My first job was as a senior developer. I knew the stack, other devs didn’t, so I had to teach them. I knew how to negotiate. So I started as senior at a big corporation.

I bumped around startups for a while. I’d regularly go from “developer” to “senior”. Then the company would bust. Then repeat.

I’m currently “non-senior” at a unicorn, but have more responsibility than I did anywhere else (unless you include 5 dev shops).

Eventually I’ll hit “senior, for real” where I won’t be willing to go back down.

What I really need is some mentoring (which I’m getting). Making the jump to “senior for real” means getting planning and management skills I don’t have, and won’t get from YouTube.

I’ve benefited from really good mentoring in the past, and plan to do so again soon.

Spooky232y ago

ttymck2y ago

What does half pay mean? Half hours?

devKnight2y ago

if you need some frontend(React, Vue) work done, i'm in that mid range. Email in my bio.

em-bee2y ago

i can do $50/hr, but max 20hrs/week, fully remote :-)

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse