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0 pointsMaursault2y ago0 comments

> Local LLMs do best on big GPUs, which aren’t an option on Macs. What Apple has done with the M-series silicon is really impressive, but it’s not as fast as big, dedicated GPU silicon.

It'd be pretty silly for Apple to cram in big, dedicated GPU when 99.9% of their customers don't care and don't want to pay for it, especially considering that anyone that does want big, dedicated GPU can outboard as much GPU as they want.[1] And many seem to think that the onboard GPU along with Neural Engine should be adequate for local LLM.

[1] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208544

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thoughtsimple2y ago

Only on Intel Macs which are going away soon (only 2019 Mac Pro is remaining outside of refurbished.)

Apple Silicon doesn't currently have any provision for external graphics cards.

MaursaultOP2y ago

There are two issues.

     1) Apple Silicon won't support PCIe. 

     2) Apple doesn't want it to.

#2 means Apple is taking nVidia and AMD head on in the GPU space. Apple wants to control everything, and allowing these competitors on their platform is giving away too much. Because Apple Silicon scales better than competitors' hw, the desire for third party GPU is probably going to evaporate within a few generations of Apple Silicon. I mean, we'll see, but that is my best guess, because it seems like that was an intentional decision rather than oversight.

bhj2y ago

AS supports Thunderbolt just fine. Isn't the lack of eGPU support due to lack of ARM drivers for them?

MaursaultOP2y ago

To suggest it is merely lack of drivers is an oversimplification. There is a chip errata that prevents PCIe GPUs from working properly on Apple Silicon: the architectures are not compatible. Apple Silicon GPU drivers are deeply integrated into the system. Due to this integration, only graphics cards that use the same GPU architecture as Apple Silicon could be supported, and there just aren't any, and I don't see how there could be unless Apple developed one and released it.

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nordsieck2y ago

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Mac Pro.

It could be that Apple does away with it entirely and the Mac Studio is the new Pro.

Or they might make a machine with PCIe support, but make it so expensive that only people with a serious need get access to it.

Or something else.

MaursaultOP2y ago

> It could be that Apple does away with it entirely and the Mac Studio is the new Pro.

Or the Mac Pro will be released without PCIe GPU support, and Apple will be able to leverage increases in Apple Silicon GPU performance to eliminate any need or desire for PCIe GPU, drawing away high end GPU customers from nVidia and AMD and locking them into Apple Silicon and the Apple ecosystem.

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0 comments

thoughtsimple2y ago

Only on Intel Macs which are going away soon (only 2019 Mac Pro is remaining outside of refurbished.)

Apple Silicon doesn't currently have any provision for external graphics cards.

MaursaultOP2y ago

There are two issues.

     1) Apple Silicon won't support PCIe. 

     2) Apple doesn't want it to.

bhj2y ago

AS supports Thunderbolt just fine. Isn't the lack of eGPU support due to lack of ARM drivers for them?

MaursaultOP2y ago

1 more reply

nordsieck2y ago

It'll be interesting to see what happens with the Mac Pro.

It could be that Apple does away with it entirely and the Mac Studio is the new Pro.

Or they might make a machine with PCIe support, but make it so expensive that only people with a serious need get access to it.

Or something else.

MaursaultOP2y ago

> It could be that Apple does away with it entirely and the Mac Studio is the new Pro.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse