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0 pointsjonhohle3y ago0 comments

So despite the majority of major metro areas having sharp increases in violent and property crime and homelessness while being run by people who claim to be progressive, those aren’t real progressives? It’s not that progressive policies don’t work and make cities worse for most people?

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5 comments · 2 top-level

peter4223y ago· 3 in thread

SF's biggest problem is lack of housing, and SF's housing policies are among the most "conservative" (ie all about keeping the status quo) in the nation.

A lot of "progressive" policies that people are worried about have little actual impact, especially when the price of housing is completely ridiculous and creates so many problems on its own.

pfannkuchen3y ago

Without building any more housing, SF could be a nice place (for those who can afford it) by simply strictly enforcing existing laws. The desire to not strictly enforce existing laws generally comes from a progressive leaning I believe? Basically, it is <some flavor of mean> to enforce the laws, because those breaking the laws were put in a bad situation by society? Which I think is the gist of a lot of progressive ideals (not asserting that they are wrong here).

peter4223y ago

Who is going to strictly enforce all the laws? The excess police officers that can't be hired because they can't afford to live in the city and don't want to commute into a city they don't care about to make less money than other nearby communities will pay them? Fewer than 25% of SF cops live in SF.

It all comes back to housing. If you have a desirable place, people want to live there, and at some point if you don't keep up with growth then your city starts to lose the really important people that kept it running (nurses, teachers, police officers, etc).

It's not like SF almost kept up with growth... They didn't try and fell so far behind in a deliberate attempt to keep a status quo, which completely led to the current disaster.

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mensetmanusman3y ago

I am amused when people think conservatism is about keeping the status quo.

That would mean if they suddenly came into power in SF they would fight to keep the doom loop stabilized.

travisjungroth3y ago

I see what you’re getting at, calling out a No True Scotsman. It’s worth remembering that some people aren’t actually Scotsmen.

SF is essentially a single party system. Everyone has to run Democrat, even the conservatives. It continues down to liberal hypocrisy in the citizenry, which mirrors the conservative hypocrisy. Every abortion is immoral except the one I need, everyone deserves affordable housing except in my neighborhood.

The end-to-end government in SF, which would include the state and federal, is not meaningfully progressive. It’s extremely progressive on visible, local issues. But it’s to such a point it’s absurd. This is how you end up with a very conservative tax system while petty property crime is de facto legal.

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