* On HN and other social media, "carbs" is a euphemism for sugar and cake rather than beans and vegetables, so people will talk about how carbs made them fat when you know they're not talking about slamming back-to-back cans of garbanzos.
And don't take any nutrition advice seriously that doesn't break fat apart into saturated and unsaturated.
Show me evidence that replacing unsaturated fat with saturated fat improves human health outcomes. If you can't, then I have to ask you how your epistemology works if you don't need a mountain of evidence to surmount the scientific consensus.
You'll find that this "debate" cashes out into two sides: one side points to the balance of scientific literature on human health outcomes, and the other side hand-waves over mechanistic speculation.
For example, the latter side likes to blame seed oils when they actually improve human health outcomes: https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-...
However, it is clear that dietary fat does not just directly go into your circulatory system.
Saturated fat is only solid at room temperature, not biological temperature. Put a tablespoon of coconut oil or butter in your mouth and see how it melts. More importantly, our body makes saturated fat. It's part of every cell's membrane. The science on which fats are good for us is still being debated, but I think the overall consensus so far is somewhat as follows: animal fats have more toxins (such as dioxins), and tend to come with cholesterol; non-animal fats are cleaner (whether saturated coconut oil or unsaturated types). Consuming too much fat blunts insulin sensitivity, but consuming too many carbs does likewise but in different ways. Carbs seem to be the bigger villain, but trans fats and low quality [rancid] oils are bad too. Having a good omega-3:6 ratio is anti-inflammatory and good for us. Eat lots of non-starchy vegetables, plenty of high quality protein, and reduce sugar consumption.
Data has been coming out over the past decade on how all the unsaturated fat touted as healthy is actually harmful, as it disrupts our hormone balance and increases inflammation. On the other hand, saturated fats are good for hormone balance, but I definitely wouldn't go out of my way to eat bacon or other high-toxin saturated fat. I'll just stick to the basics as stated in the previous paragraph.
The idea that saturated fats are better than unsaturated fats is a small minority opinion. It's all the rage with wellness influencer types, but it is currently supported by far less evidence than the consensus.
Are you contesting that?
That's pretty settled science. Low-carb influencers don't even deny that, so they instead try to hand-wave that high LDL/ApoB aren't a problem. Usually with some quackery over how atherosclerosis works, usually claiming that lipids only pass through the arterial endothelium when it's inflamed (false, they pass through anyways).
The balance of evidence showing that LDL cholesterol and better markers like Apo B cause CVD and atherosclerosis is so huge I'm not sure where I'd start if I wanted to deny it.
What research do you think is so convincing that it supersedes this balance of evidence?
I see this all the time in nutrition “science”, and it is just bad science.
As I get older, I find more enjoyment using my magnifying glass for discovery than burning
You seriously need to ask yourself that question before asking it of others.
Fruit and vegetables, go ahead. I just lightly pan fried some potato cubes and tossed in random veg for breakfast.
I don't want to do a whole diet breakdown every time I scrawl something about nutrition on HN. But more HNers should subscribe to evidence-based reporters on the topic like Simon Hill and Gil Carvalho rather than evidence deniers like most of the low-carb space and quacks like Eric Berg.
No.
> * On HN and other social media, "carbs" is a euphemism for sugar and cake rather than beans and vegetables, so people will talk about how carbs made them fat when you know they're not talking about slamming back-to-back cans of garbanzos.
Maybe that's because nobody wants to slam down cans of garbanzo beans. Garbanzo beans suck unless they're made into something like hummus, and eating too much of that results in gas and gastrointestinal upset. That doesn't mean it's good for you or optimal in any way.
> And don't take any nutrition advice seriously that doesn't break fat apart into saturated and unsaturated.
Don't take any nutrition advice from somebody saying there are "healthy" carbs. There is no such thing, except degrees of contraindication. Only endogenous carbs can be considered healthy in a human being, so long as the body is properly regulating it.
> No.
Let's make this simple: show me evidence that replacing unsaturated fat with saturated fat improves human health outcomes. Obviously we're not going to have this discussion in a dead HN thread, but you have to do better than that when challenging the scientific consensus.
It's trivial to find sources for the opposite. Just google "saturated vs unsaturated fat". Maybe consult the wiki entry for Saturated Fat.
You surely must at least be able to acknowledge that you're posting from a fringe position?
Also: to your "garbanzo beans suck" point- I actually love them—but not those awful canned ones! I enjoy raw sprouted chickpeas from our local farmers market on salads, or simmering some dried ones with onion, tomato, a bay leaf and some yogurt until they are just "al dente".
I think I just threw up a little bit in my mouth ...
Highly recommend you try it. Get the Del Monte canned garbanzos if you live in North America.
If anything Ray Peat, a quack, says is true, then why do things like PUFAs improve human health outcomes in the literature? He says PUFAs cause atherosclerosis and SFA protects against it, so why does human outcome data show the opposite? And how many animal studies is he going to bring up?
Ray Peat is a good example of how far contrarianism will take you in the nutrition celeb space. Probably because we like to decide on what we want to eat first and then shop for claims that support it which is 10000x easier than deciding on what to eat based on the greatest evidence.
Here's a good post that summarizes some PUFA literature in response to the social media "seed oil" scare: https://www.the-nutrivore.com/post/a-comprehensive-rebuttal-...
