> WhatsApp has a documented history of all kinds of shadyness from uploading unencrypted (yes, unencrypted) backups to Google under an agreement that let Google rummage through them(!) to their "send the data in a sidechannel directly to Facebook for analysis while also sending it end-to-end-encrypted to the recipient".

I don't have that backup enabled. Does that mean that WhatsApp is secure for me with everyone who also has that disabled?

I don't see how Telegram is better in that respect; the server sees all messages directly. It doesn't even need a documented backdoor like you described.

> under an agreement that let Google rummage through them(!) to their "send the data in a sidechannel directly to Facebook for analysis while also sending it end-to-end-encrypted to the recipient".

*EDIT*: Can you give a link to that agreement? It'd interest me. :)

> But if you mean no one should ever touch it

That's not what I said.