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0 pointsdTal3y ago0 comments

Super depressed and toxic and always right. He's shown as being that way because he understands the world better. The show might not praise him directly, but until the most recent seasons (where they appear to be trying to undo some damage) it consistently showed that he is a more effective person because of it.

Another example of the subversion that reinforces this "truth = negativity" moral:

(Spoilers)

The episode where they're trapped in the house with shapeshifting memory-modifying aliens pretending to be loved family members. Traditionally you would expect such a problem to be resolved through the power of love, or some other positive quality that bonds the family in a way the aliens can't fake. Rick and Morty inverts it and the problem is solved through the power of resentment. The message is clear - reality is ugly and messy and painful, and "love" is a powerful illusion created to fill a biological purpose, and you should be suspicious of it if you want to act rationally, which you should. Admittedly, the Mr Poopybutthole denouement partially redeems the episode by subverting its own point and cautioning against taking it too far, but the same message crops up too often in Rick and Morty to be ignored.

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spywaregorilla3y ago· 2 in thread

I disagree. The message is clear that reality is messy. But not that love is an illusion. Those two messages aren't hand in hand. In the time stop episode he explicitly sacrifices himself for love and reflects on that. Most Ricks don't seem to love their grandkids but the main Rick does. This has been a plot point since season 1.

I think Rick was frequently wrong even in early material. He was wrong about the planet being ruled by advanced males that lost the need for females. He was wrong about his relationship with Unity and nearly kills himself for it. He was wrong when he destroyed his own universe. Rick lives in a meaningless world because he's vastly surpassed its limitations. But he's not better for it.

Most plot arcs take an existing concept, writing tactic, plot, or trope, and deconstruct its assumptions to then reconstruct the juicy bits. Like the Purge episode. Rick is too powerful to be bothered by the purge. Gets bored. But ends on gleeful gratuitous violence because its kind of fun. Which gets back to what I would say is the central message of the show. Even if the world is dumb/messy/nihilistic/bad; it can still be awesome. Things can be good without a need for them to be intrinsically good.

I think this is one of the more pressing artistic idea of our times. Same for Everything Everywhere All At Once.

dTalOP3y ago

>The message is clear that reality is messy. But not that love is an illusion

Rick explicitly states that it is, on several occasions. First, during the love potion episode:

"Listen Morty, I hate to break it to you, but what people calls “love” is just a chemical reaction that compels animals to breed. It hits hard, Morty, then it slowly fades, leaving you stranded in a failing marriage. I did it. Your parents are gonna do it. Break the cycle, Morty. Rise above. Focus on science."

And again at the end of Season 2, during a wedding "toast", he expands on both love being an illusion AND on being smart making him an asshole:

"Listen, I’m not the nicest guy in the Universe because I’m the smartest. And being nice is something stupid people do to hedge their bets. Now, I haven’t been exactly subtle about how little I trust marriage. I couldn’t make it work, and I could turn a black hole into a sun, so at a certain point, you’ve got to ask yourself what are the odds this is legit and not just some big lie we’re all telling ourselves because we’re afraid to die alone? Because, you know, that’s exactly how we all die … alone." (And before you say "ah but the show isn't endorsing Rick", this message is immediately reinforced by the bride coldly murdering the groom.)

The messaging couldn't really have been clearer.

spywaregorilla3y ago

I disagree again! Rick is lying to himself. The first quote is a self destructive drunken rant. The second one is followed by him saying the exact opposite. He loves bird person. He's willing to love tammy.

Even ignoring the canon of future seasons which cements this point further, it had been demonstrated that Rick believes in love, and even clearly juxtaposes himself from the other Ricks who consider their grandsons to be "just" a Morty.

Love can be an illusion of course. And it frequently is. But rick most definitely does not categorically believe all love is illusory.

mindslight3y ago

Being right does generally lead to being depressed and "toxic", because people (one's self and others) aren't happy thinking in terms of cold hard truths. At least that is my experience.

The constructive analysis is the show isn't meant to be an example for fully formed adults to emulate. Rather it's a coping mechanism. Have you ever had to spend weeks of your life dealing with bureaucrats, while they drown you with their sea of forms and policies? cf. "They're just robots, Morty!". That does not inspire me to go out and start shooting bureaucrats as they do in the show. Rather I just appreciate someone else casually cutting through to the ugly dynamic of the social mire.

The main difference between Rick and real-world intelligence is that Rick just blurts things out while those of us in the real world learn to tone it down and be highly selective about attacking social consensuses. But Rick blurting things out is the only way for the viewer to know them - the show isn't based around his internal monologue.

Additionally there are a lot of kids figuring out their place in the world, and looking for truths they can trust. Being technically correct is one of those truths. That some kids end up emulating the whole character is just stupid youthful experimentation that we all look back on and cringe. The fact they're expressing it on web forums and you're reading it and can't see that it was written by a prepubescent noob has more to do with the vanishing spaces of childhood than anything else.

arp2423y ago

A significant chunk of iconic comedy characters are horrible people. Basil Fawlty, Blackadder, David Brent, Malcolm Tucker, Homer Simpson, Hyacinth B̶u̶c̶k̶e̶t̶ Bouquet, etc. etc.

Some of these characters have redeemable aspects as well; Homer Simpson is a dedicated family man who clearly very much loves Marge and his kids; there are some scenes that are quite sweet. But he's not being very funny in those scenes, he's being funny when he's selfish, lazy, alcoholic, and generally just a jerk.

Even in comedies where the characters aren't jerks such as Brooklyn 99, many of the characters would still be horrible in actual real life. Can you imagine working with Jake?

Overall, I think it's a mistake to overthink comedic characters too much; sometimes something funny is just funny, and just because character X is horrible doesn't mean the creators are trying to send any sort of message. It's certainly a mistake to emulate these sort of characters or take life lessons from them.

This kind of reminds me of the video game debates. Yes, in video game X you go around shooting people to solve your problems, but in real life you don't. I think everyone understands that.

Rick reminds me of the Elves in Lord of the Rings. Tired, weary of life, sort of past caring; the curse of immortality. Rick has the curse of being nigh-omnipotent.

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