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0 pointsZxian3y ago0 comments

The business transaction between me and a restaurant is for the food and service they provide. I pay the restaurant, the restaurant pays the labour.

Refusing to tip isn't refusing payment. If it were, I'd be illegal (i.e. theft). Labelling this as "sharing the labour cost" is precisely the problem at hand.

If I hand my pizza delivery driver a $5 bill, I intend it to be a bonus for the driver, not a subsidy for the business. I have zero incentive to pay the business any more than the prices they advertise.

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molotovh3y ago

You're absolutely correct regarding tips being a "subsidy for the business". The reason "tipped minimum wage" (where it exists) is lower than actual minimum wage is because the business claims a "tip credit" towards meeting their minimum wage obligation. They're essentially telling the government "this person will make up the difference (or more) in tips, and that will meet our legal obligation to pay the minimum wage."

In most jurisdictions, this is figured by taking the employee's wages plus reported tips for each pay period and dividing them by the employee's clocked hours for that pay period. If that result is not at least actual minimum wage, the employer normally owes the employee the difference.

I don't know if it's a lack of knowledge or actual malicious pay practices (probably some of both), but number of people I meet in the service industry who don't know that last bit and tell me they've never been paid the difference for "dead" shifts (those that generate little to no tips) is staggering.

godelski3y ago

> I don't know if it's a lack of knowledge or actual malicious pay practices (probably some of both), but number of people I meet in the service industry who don't know that last bit and tell me they've never been paid the difference for "dead" shifts (those that generate little to no tips) is staggering.

That's because wage theft is relatively common among the service industry and is also why several states outlawed special wage. You can probably imagine how easy it is to perform wage theft in this situation simply because how difficult accurately calculating that differential is. You're basically relying on every single person to act in good faith in an environment where every person has large incentives to act in bad faith (employers can easily get away with not paying and employees can easily pocket tips and not report them. One of these, or just the perception of, can create a coupled feedback loop with the other).

tptacek3y ago

No, in an American restaurant, the business transaction is between you, the restaurant, and your server. You are explicitly given permission to refuse (extra) payment to your server, and the restaurant (to a limited extent) backstops that risk for the employee. You're going to have bad relationships (and experiences) with American restaurants if you make a habit of undertipping.

vuln3y ago

In an American retail or grocery store is my business transaction between me, the store and the cashier?

What's the difference between a server and a cashier? One walks between point a and b instead of standing in place? How much should I tip a cashier; 20% of the cost of my groceries?

tptacek3y ago

No, grocery stores aren't restaurants. The difference is restaurants elect to establish different terms.

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molotovh3y ago

godelski3y ago

tptacek3y ago

vuln3y ago

In an American retail or grocery store is my business transaction between me, the store and the cashier?

What's the difference between a server and a cashier? One walks between point a and b instead of standing in place? How much should I tip a cashier; 20% of the cost of my groceries?

tptacek3y ago

No, grocery stores aren't restaurants. The difference is restaurants elect to establish different terms.

1 more reply

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse