undefined | Better HN

0 pointsnottorp3y ago0 comments

> people just _don’t want to spend time learning your one-off language_

Which people though? If you make a DSL that non programmers in your organization use, I'm sure they will appreciate not having to learn the intricacies of Rust or whatever's in fashion this week.

0 comments

Yizahi3y ago

We don't use DSL per se, but a custom tool for writing QA tests, which looks like a kinda Visio block diagram software, only each block is a function or other logical entity. Anyway, after a few years struggling with it, for many different reasons, we are slowly and painfully migrating to writing tests in Python, and every single QA supports it.

Custom languages, with limited support, limited community, limited extendability etc. are just like that - limited. And as soon as you hit a wall with them, transition will cost more (in both time and money) than saved in the first place by using "easier" tooling for non-programmers.

AnimalMuppet3y ago

And you probably are going to hit a wall, because human desires expand. Your program does X? That was great, when you wrote it. But now, can you make it do Y? How about Z? Can you integrate it with system W? What do you mean, your little language doesn't support that?

While they are arguably "little languages", shells don't have this problem, because they allow you to invoke any program written in any language, which is an infinite-sized escape hatch for this issue. SQL kind of doesn't have this problem, because it has stored procedures (and also because people don't usually expect general computation from SQL). So SQL and shells are both "little" in some sense, but very much not little in others. Any other small language must also have some similar escape hatch, or it will trap you.

Digression: Reading the comments, SQL and shells keep coming up as the examples of "little languages". But SQL, for all its power, is not "the future". It's going to be part of the future, but it's sure not going to replace everything else. Neither are shells. And I don't see many other examples coming up. This doesn't sell me on the article's claim.

nottorpOP3y ago

> a custom tool for writing QA tests ... we are slowly and painfully migrating to writing tests in Python, and every single QA supports it

QA is a programming related activity. These aren't the non programmers you are looking for.

I'm thinking more of shops that aren't pure software dev. Where you have specialists in <whatever the company does> that could use writing some automation themselves but don't have the time or inclination to learn all the modern meta-meta-programming stuff. 30 years ago they would have written some quickie BASIC for their formulas but now the software is based on Rust and C++ 2025 and they don't have time for that.

Basically programming is best handling by ... programming languages. However a domain that's not programming can be handled by a DSL.

> which looks like a kinda Visio block diagram software

But in this case there's your problem right there. That's not a DSL it's a visual code generation tool. Can you think of even one tool like that that hasn't proved itself useless?

wrycoder3y ago

e.g. AWK or VisiCalc.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse