It's good to see something is done. Let's hope this steamrolls into a nationwide manhunt for these criminals. They should also consider targeting and auditing shops that buy used car parts. Making it extremely difficult to fence these things will be practical and useful because they aren't sold and reused as is - the rare earth metals are extracted. Something your average criminal won't be capable of doing in their garage.
California just passed a law to this end, which is pretty straightforward and effectively turns the grey market into a black market. A black market will still exist, but it will be a lot harder for legitimate junkyards, auto repair shops, and recycling facilities to look the other way.
It basically mandates KYC (Know Your Customer) procedures for companies that buy or sell catalytic converters, and it makes buying or selling a catalytic converter without documentation that it was obtained legally a crime. It won't completely eliminate the problem, and it'll be harder unless Arizona, Nevada, and Mexico also take similar steps. But it should also enable more targeting and auditing. One part of this case was filed in California, so I bet they had some kind of sting operation that was made a lot easier when they can lean on a low-level junkyard dealer to testify against the people higher up in the black market.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-25/newsom-s...
This is worse than the original problem. When did we become so comfortable with the government mandating presentation of papers and tracking of private transactions?
Effective, privacy-preserving law enforcement is difficult.
That doesn’t mean we should cut corners through ever-increasing state oversight targeted at the latest symptoms of criminality.
The choice isn’t between laws like this and having your catalytic converter stolen. The choice is between law enforcement actually doing their job, or invasive and ineffectual laws like this.
The justice department, in the very article we’re discussing, investigated and took down this ring without California’s new “KYC” regulations.
The fundamental problem here is that pretty much every car has a fairly unsecured cat underneath it and that law enforcement DGAF. The problem will persist until you fix one of those two.
Gotta get all the cat converters you can before all the cars are electric!
Drill in, destroy the the charging port on the car, retrieve the cable and sell on Ebay. How much do one of those charging cables go? $200? If not, and if the owner does something to lock the cable, cutting it for the copper is still worth a few dollars.
They should also consider targeting and auditing shops that buy used car parts
In this case they took out the palladium and sold it to a refinery. Also, VINed parts, like airbags, have been found being shipped to countries that don't care about or can't enforce the sale of them.So, it'd eat into some of the criminal's profits, but probably not enough to significantly reduce theft. So efforts are likely better spent elsewhere.
Really wish the cops would download a list of who installed this app and find their location data on top of a map of reported thefts...
Uh... So, I too found the website and couldn't believe how brazen the business is. I too was surprised about the app. If I downloaded the app because I was so surprised, should my name be given to the police as part of this investigation?
That's ridiculous.
In my country scrapped vehicles are issued a certificate that you can use to reclaim taxes. Maybe manufacturers should start adding unique codes to all parts so you can be sure it comes from a legitimate source.
This would be a massive time unless their goal is to find and harass every small time used car parts dealer.
Thieves don't really care about precise prices on cats. They just know that certain year/make/model ranges are what to go after.
The target market of this app is people who sell used car parts for money and want to know the value of the parts. When you are buying a random car for $500-1k with the intent of selling wheels/tires and a couple other big ticket items before scrapping the car for a couple hundred you care a lot about whether the cat is $200 or $1200 for obvious reasons.
That's one group of thieves selling 38 million worth to them. Later on in the document more groups of thieves are listed, getting paid 13, 45, and 6 million dollars. But that's still not necessarily the whole amount paid to thieves.
Also, it's quite possible that some of their business, and thus sales to refineries was legitimate. None of their partners are listed in the press release as being arrested.
And there are things we could do to make that easier, like putting a serial number on the converter on new cars and replacement parts. Requiring the make, model, and serial number of the car it was removed from, and a web site with a DB that has the ID number of cars they've been stolen from so buyers could check it.
Make those who buy and sell and steal them pay for it. For new car buyers all they be paying for is the addition of the serial number. Can't add much cost to engrave those during production.
Unless you're cool with the thefts that are going on, or think any government regulation is "overstepping."
The other one is welding on the converter. It doesn't make it unstealable; but it's just not a quickie extraction anymore.
If your question is (as it should be), "What about legitimately fixing the converter? Can you still do that?" , I don't know.
So far it has worked. That is either because the vehicle has not been targeted (most likely case) or because the thieves saw who may have targeted it realized that there were easier vehicles to hit parked nearby (not unlikely but certainly less likely).
> Last year approximately 1,600 catalytic converters were reportedly stolen in California each month, and California accounts for 37% of all catalytic converter theft claims nationwide.
> The black-market price for catalytic converters can be above $1,000 each, depending on the type of vehicle and what state it is from.
> Defendants ... operated DG Auto... DG Auto sold the precious metal powders it processed from California and elsewhere to a metal refinery for over $545 million.
How did they make $545M in a racket whose upper limit on annual profit is a tenth of that? Perhaps that figure represents DG Auto's gross revenue, only a portion of which comes from recycling converters?
2) 1600 is just the number reported. I’d imagine not many people report the thefts, especially if your car insurance premiums will rise (insurance companies raise premiums even if you don’t make a claim if they have information that suggests your neighborhood or places you frequent are at increased risk of theft)
3) possibly the rate of catalytic converter thefts has risen dramatically in 2022 compared to 2021
> How did they make $545M in a racket whose upper limit on annual profit is a tenth of that? Perhaps that figure represents DG Auto's gross revenue, only a portion of which comes from recycling converters?
Because the converters themselves are only worth $1k each on the black market, but apparently quite a bit more if stripped and processed further, to bare precious metal powders, which are much easier to work with.
This takedown seems to have been possible because there was a central group that was moving hundreds of millions of dollars of stolen goods - maybe even billions if you take "cost to manufacture" instead of "resell value". Why would a bike theft ring that centralized exist?
https://www.kiro7.com/news/bike-rack-chop-shop-growing-trend...
Bay area? i thought i was bad in Socal, I had my Gen 2 Prius siting outside a residential area near a major university town while I was away in EU and had mine stolen. I had to junk a decently running hybrid because of this as Toyota had a shortage of them and since the Prius was designed for the California market without the Toyota stamp on the cat its an instant fail for emissions, even if the ppms are within spec with an aftermarket part: no exceptions!
It's literally the most ironic thing I've experienced and I worked in the auto industry and at VW through Diesel gate!
This is so wide-spread and many good cars just ended up in the scrap yard when it was an easy fix to just allow for temp smog exemption, mine still for 40+mpg with worn batteries and thus exceeded most of what is sold on the market now, but because of regulatory capture and how insurance policy works it was the most expedient albeit wasteful solution--this is what I fear AI will bring about in most cases if left to its own devises and unchecked, too. Some made it to neighboring states without this requirement (OR/AZ/NV/CO) but the issue was logistical because you'd need a temp Cat installed to drive to said state, but in early '21 you could get them for <$1000 and recovered your costs as they soared in value as gas inflation pries kicked in gear.
I actually pitched this as a to a friend who was having his 1st kid at the time, he offered me funding (mid 5 figures) but I couldn't work with him due to the child so I left the idea and took off to EU instead. I had anticipated and projected healthy returns, $2k/unit after expenses, little did I know it would go to $7k+ per unit as I found my sources for the legwork: 49 state legal cats, mechanics to install, and drivers ready to go (mainly me). It's mainly what I had done at VW after all, logistically speaking.
There was a total parallel economy in shield installs, part/chassis swaps and tracking devises etc... because it got worse not better. I attribute a lot of this to the issue wit unemployment payments, and general lack of help for those during covid people got desperate and would probably be foisted into this easier than before.
There is no way in hell the buyers don't know the volume and source is complete wrong and criminal.
If no-one is buying they won't be stolen.
I sold my defective OEM Prius cat on EBay (I bought it knowing it was broken on my car and installed new in 2018) for parts to test how liquid the market was before I went looking for funding (post above) and doing DD and market research, it was rather easy and someone paid within two hours for the reserve price ($1000+).
Shipping was the biggest headache/cost of the whole process, but the guys on ebay buy Platinum, Platinum, Rhodium are still around.
While I don't deny some larger brokers at work, possibly OEMS, the fact is that everyone was grifting during covid, the stock market and real estate was soaring, corpo America (and the World) was flush wit bailout money etc... This wasn't even a blip on the radar of the billions being made.
Go after the recycling centers that buy these. Fine them into submission. Watch the market dry up.
I removed the exhaust from one of my vehicles about 15 years ago when I replaced the worn out engine and have had the old catalytic converter sitting around in my shop ever since.
The catalytic converter came from a 1992 model vehicle. The whole exhaust was replaced with a custom stainless steel exhaust front to back with a 50-state compliant catalytic converter in line from a well-known California supplier.
I intended to run it by the metal recycler several times but never made it and now that theft is such a huge problem I can see where just showing up with one to sell could be a problem.
I still own and drive the vehicle and could probably dig up documentation for the replacement exhaust system.
I'm glad to see a federal effort to stop these thefts. I had to install a cage around my kid's catalytic converter since there were thefts occurring from vehicles on their college campus.
The conclusion I came to was that if I didn't look shady, the cats still had their mounting flanges on them (not sawed off), and no problem giving the recycling yard my contact info, I'd have no problems.
I wonder if this will make a dent in how often it happens. My niece's was stolen in broad daylight.
Many areas of the country there is no consequences.
And catalytic converter theft is still very common. We are the #2 state on the list of catalytic converter thefts per 100k automobiles[3].
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[1] https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/PE/htm/PE.9.htm
[2] https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/gun-ownership-rates-by-stat...
[3] https://www.beenverified.com/data-analysis/catalytic-convert...
Besides, there’s way too much margin for error in vigilante justice. That’s why we have trials, imperfect as even they may be. They’re certainly better than empowering everyone to be judge, jury, and executioner because they thought you might be committing a property crime.
I think the problem is underlying societal collapse rather than consequences.
Please go right ahead though, seeing the failures of the punitive system in the US provides an exemplar of why my country should not go down that path.
Theft is heavily correlated with the economy. Arguably it's a canary in the mine - you can very usually tell what's going to happen in the macroeconomics of an area by just following crime statistics.
"Deterrence" has generally been found to be a pretty well-rooted myth. Majority of theft also happens by people who _don't actually know what the consequences are_. So just increasing them doesn't actually help.
If you can show strong evidence that prison is one of the best ways of reducing crime, then sure you've convinced me (and probably plenty others).
I am glad they caught this ring, of course, but this is not meaningful crimefighting. The only message it sends is: the pole to the top is a bit greasy.
I think this is the law: https://oregon.public.law/statutes/ors_164.857
Who is creating a market for stolen catalytic converters? Are the precious metals being extracted, melted down and sold? to who and where?
Put THOSE people in jail for the rest of their lives and change the setup so there is in incentive for anyone to even steal one in the first place.
> They knowingly purchased stolen catalytic converters and, through a “de-canning” process, extracted the precious metal powders from the catalytic core. DG Auto sold the precious metal powders it processed from California and elsewhere to a metal refinery for over $545 million.
I mean, when you're buying refined precious metal powders from inside the US, it doesn't take a genius to figure out where it's coming from.
Ivory, on the other hand, can be assumed to be illegally produced in 99% of the cases. If there are legal ways to even obtain new ivory, it's on the buyer to prove that their source is legal. That's not the case for catalytic cores.
There are legitimate sources for these precious metals, and legitimate uses too. The parallel to ivory doesn't make any sense in that you don't have to kill Elephants to get Rhodium.
This viral video of a catalytic converter thief in Bankstown Australia:
https://www.tiktok.com/@alfa_towing/video/715361999595885696...
Also fuel efficiency, and until very recently, diesel was cheaper than petrol here due to tax reasons. (even regular. Not Ag-diesel)
I'd get an electric car, if they were cheaper/available used. (road tax is based on CO2/km, so an electric one is free.)
If your converter is stolen, and a police report is filed, that vehicle is now emissions exempt for the rest of its life and can just have a straight pipe installed.
Now there’s a MASSIVE incentive on behalf of the state to solve the converter theft problem.
I obviously don't have any sympathy for these likely criminals, but unless i misunderstand it sounds like people lost their homes (civil asset forfeiture) before being convicted of a crime which I'm not sure is something to brag about.
At the very least, I believe the assets would be returned to them if it turns out they are found not guilty. So they are seized but not gone for good.
https://www.reddit.com/r/h3h3productions/comments/ul2ar5/tha...
2: why did it take them this long?
Edit: Love the helpful comments though telling poor people just to move out of the city if their cat gets stolen, as if moving is easy if you can't afford to replace a cat.