I honestly don’t expect this country to stay together for more than a few more decades. What is a Canadian? The “melting pot” theory of integration is also considered racist here because Canada is a “mosaic” where everyone has the right to keep their old culture and live in an ethnic enclave with no expectation of assimilation.
We're one of the least densely populated countries in the world with one of the lowest birth rates in the world. If you don't think immigration makes sense for cultural reasons that's fine, but with respect to healthcare and housing don't be under any illusion -- reducing immigration would exacerbate these issues by giving us an even more heavily aging population.
There’s a reason most Canadians live close to the southern border. Most of Canada’s territory isn’t particularly friendly to large-scale human habitation.
Maybe the canadian economy isn't able to support a decent quality of life and these population levels. Seriously go visit these countries these people are from and ask yourself, would you like canada to turn into this?! Let's be honest with ourselves.
Don't worry you can just label me a racist and devolve the argument around that instead of the fundamental issues with immigration today. Canada is going to turn into the countries where these people are from if there aren't cut backs.
In Canada, immigrants make up
23% of registered nurses
35% of nurse aides and related occupations
37% of pharmacists
36% of physicians
39% of dentists
So what should really be counted is foreign-trained immigrants who were able to have their credentials considered equivalent, and entered directly into employment.
The situation is more akin to the rapid urbanization in the third world. Infrastructure cant keep up. Just try GTA traffic. People move to Barrie just to afford a house in the GTA (Barries not GTA!).
Sure Canada is "empty", but its also an inhospitable frozen waste land with 90% of the population living within 100 km of the US border. When we say Canada is "full" what we mean is that Canada cannot build fast enough. That the 3000 km^2 worth living in in Canada are really really dense.
The half closed ones though? Yah, that’s a worker shortage. My local one started by closing the dining area and then started closing at 8PM simply because they can’t staff it. Of course they can’t, they only offer minimum wage.
Looking at US stats (2018 numbers):
- 500k immigrant visas (green cards)
- 9M non-immigrant visas minus 6M B1/B2 visitor visas
So each year, it totals about 3.5M, which is ~10x Canada, so not that far off per capita.
You could argue that staying in Canada after arriving with a temporary visa is much easier than the US, which is true.
https://travel.state.gov/content/travel/en/legal/visa-law0/v...
To provide context to others, an amazingly high portion of Canadians don't have a family doctor <https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/despite-more-doctors-many-cana...>. In Atlantic Canada (the four easternmost provinces) it is impossible, repeat *impossible*, to get a family doctor if you don't have one <https://www.thetelegram.com/in-depth/doctor-shortage/what-we...>. It's one thing to have shortages in rural areas—that happens in the US too—but Halifax?!? I've heard the same occurs in Vancouver too.
I'm guessing it's partly a function of where family doctors like to settle? Most of my friends who are family doctors end up in Ontario.
Also, in Ontario, Nurse Practitioners (who often work in partnership with a physician) are able to provide equally good primary care, so the system is actually quite scalable if you're not strictly looking for MDs. In the US, physician assistants and medical assistants often provide primary care. In Canada NPs often fill that role.
I assume you mean per-capita? Because legal immigration alone into the US is about 1.8 million/year and has been for almost a decade, excluding one or two pandemic years.
That's weird, really. I'm about 10% of income there and could easily buy a house in 3-5 years. Not on Vancouver, though, if that's what you mean.
Those who consider immigration a race issue are often those who view everything as a race issue, and view reality through a warped lens of race. Even worse are others who have ulterior motives (political, economic) for favoring increased immigration and use the race card as a weapon to smear opponents and prevent substantive debate.
...or maybe don't compare Canada's rate to a country with one of the strictest immigration policies available, just because doing so fits your inclinations...?
Who are most of the immigrants to Canada I wonder…
India: 96,660 China: 24,995 Philippines: 13,310 Nigeria: 12,500 France: 10,510 United States: 9,525 Brazil: 9,270 Iran: 8,930 Pakistan: 6,625 South Korea: 6,590
Americans were invited to live in what is what is now Texas by Spain long before there was a Mexican government, to act as a buffer against the Comanche who had decimated Spanish ranches, towns and outposts in raids from the north.
And in Quebec the extreme-left party (QS) is promoting religious sectarianism in schools, in favor of political indoctrination of children.
There are also unashamed communists promoting war in Montreal, just today there was a dude flying the soviet flag on a bike while I was getting coffee, and nothing can be done it about otherwise --> Jail.
Contemporary Canada has only existed for 50 years, and for some reason everybody left of center thinks it's always been this way and it feels like they are all ready to cut their veins open in shame of being born in a successful country...
Out of curiosity, what would you like to do to the bike-rider that would land you in jail?
Even doctors trained in developed countries like UK have no guarantee that they will be approved to work in Canada as noted on the BMA’s own website [1].
On top of that most medical professionals moving to Canada are not from highly developed but rather developing countries and they spend years just trying to get their license and give up in the end .
https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/career-progression...
You and OP can probably agree that infrastructure needs to improve to support more people, but until that happens, there shouldn’t be such availability of immigrant visas.
This country is doing better than it ever has in history. The immigrants Canada lets in are a gift to the economy. If neighboring US is anything to go by, 90 of the top 500 US unicorns ($ 1 billion+) have an Indian born founder.
Germany losing its national identity I can follow. France losing its national identity I can follow as well, although my sympathies are somewhat limited given the context of it. But the US and Canada ? You ask an average American and they tell you their a quarter Italian, A quarter German, 1/10 native American and 2/5th danish. What is the national identity here?
There were a number of places that sought to, or outright skipped, the Independence Day celebration this year. It’s now totally normal for some people to find the US flag “problematic” and itself a sign of oppression.
While at it: both Germany and France used to be much more varied in cultures and languages, but were unified by their centralized states. A dilution of this unity is, in a sense, return to a more natural state of cultural variety.
That said, it's undergoing a massive correction right now, so you may be right in 3-5 years.
Many of these locations have a bias in their hiring as well, they gift their family and friends positions in these companies, refusing to work with anyone else. I seriously cannot remember the last time I have seen someone who isn't Indian working at Tim Hortons.
I cannot imagine having to find a first job as a 16/17/18 year old.
(I went to high school in Canada in the early 2010s).
Although the hiring bias makes sense. Of course you choose relatives over strangers so that the money stays in the family.
This is not correct. Toronto is 52% visible minorities. Even mid-sized cities like Calgary have big immigrant populations from Asia. When I visiting the wilderness of BC I actually ran into a guy who owned a fruit orchard who immigrated from India a few years back.
We need more people who get this stuff but hate politics to become politicians.
We are so short on talent we are forced to hire outside the US. 90% of applicants are terrible by any meaningful metric. Even when I interviewed at a startup once they told me 85% of applicants couldn't get past technical questionaire where the hardest question was having to fix bad syntax in a 6-7 line python code.
We got a guy who just got his BSC in infosec and even then they teach them so little it is ridiculous.
I am talking about 90K+ for 0 experience at most places! I am not very smart, I am terrible at making friends and networking, 0 social skills, absolutley unattractive or charming. Why am I doing well? Why is everyone else complaining?
I am baffled about "quiet quit" bullshit. Why don't people have self respect and pride in their work? I get retail workers getting paid an unlivable wage but come on! You don't have to code or work in infosec, before all this I worked various blue collar jobs that have similar high demand (and this was 5+ yrs ago), still no degree and all my training was on the job and it was paying ok (60-75k).
Why don't people want money? That is the question that baffles me so much.
I mean, even if writing code was the only way to get paid 6 figures, why aren't people lining up to code even if they hate it with passion? You get money!
Of course, it is because the immigrants and minorities are taking all the jobs (I wish they would at least the things can get done).
Even in US colleges and companies, look at who is writing all the papers and new findings in STEM and compsci: a lot of asian immigrants/students!
Should the US absorb large amounts of people from Latin America and from Africa?
I just want to point out that the current and recently re-elected Ontario government (representing 14.5 million people) is currently running a $2b budget surplus [1] while simultaneously capping healthcare workers’ pay raises to just 1% a year [2] in a time of record inflation. That is to say: you get what you pay (and vote) for.
[1] https://news.ontario.ca/en/release/1002311/ontario-releases-...
[2] https://toronto.citynews.ca/2021/11/15/bill-124-ontario/
I think most people acknowledge that immigrants are young and relatively more fit and therefore don't consume health services nearly as much as aging, western boomers.
The major issue we're facing due to the high immigration levels is the strain that it's putting on our housing availability levels. Those 270k people/year need to live somewhere, right now and that has direct effects on cost of living of everyone in Canada.
Our immigration system heavily favours educated professionals with job offers.
I would not be surprised if the present culture was engineered to quell any dissent over the new immigration policies.
And considering that migrants tend to cluster together these immigration hotspots like Toronto will see multiple % growth annually in new arrivals! That is seriously fast population growth! Replacement?
What exactly is your question? Could be interpreted a number of ways.
Anyways, here's one source https://www.statista.com/statistics/443063/number-of-immigra...
https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/young-immigrants-may-leave-can...
I have heard this elsewhere, that Canada loses a lot of its immigrants either to return or another destination (most likely the US).
The rate of immigration is not as high as the headline number for this reason, but 20% of Canada's population is still foreign born which exceeds the historical peak in the US during the 1900s and 1910s.
Has immigration historically played a role in building the exquisite Canadian society you speak of?
1. It benefits big business. It's an absolute god send for labour intensive industries to have a constantly growing pool of employees. Especially if they're from places with a worse standard of living, so they're likely to accept much lower working conditions and pay.
2. It benefits real estate speculation. Housing construction simply cannot keep up in demand, and the richest people in our respective countries have a real estate heavy portfolio. Migrants trickle into city centres, which means big construction projects as high density housing is built, as well as the knock on effective of the native born population migrating to new suburbs that get to be built from the ground up.
3. You get to feel warm and fuzzy inside. Diversity, inclusion, different foods etc etc. If native born people pay higher rents, are served by increasingly overcapacity infrastructure, and have their wages suppressed by increased competition - well they're just immoral and can be brow-beaten into accepting policies that are ultimately in place to benefit the rich.
from my observation blue collar work in Alberta at least is seen as equal or better than white collar. you're treated sincerely and honestly at the job site and there is real respect and concern for your safety and productivity on the job. there is a very tangible and defined career path you can take, with lucrative benefits and meaningful lasting retirement.
I chickened out at 19 because I didn't understand the implications of the citizenship, which requires a pledge of allegiance to the queen. old timers at my shop managed to scare me out of it but to this day I still dream of Canada.
Jokes aside there can be real implications of citizenship that people should be aware of, such as military service, taxes, and more. It’s not to be done lightly.
Then Canada decided to run some kind of a wild federally run “point based” immigration system starting 2015. Under that scheme, criterias such as education, job experience get you some assigned points. For example someone with a masters degree would get 20 points and someone with 10yr job experience would get 25points etc. You would qualify if your points are above some threshold and Federal government runs some kind of lotteries every few weeks to pick candidates in the qualified pool inviting them to apply.
Except the problem is now, there are too many frauds in the system. In many countries, accreditation and job experiences can be easily bought. And now that international students graduating from Canada fall under the same pool, they have to compete with these same people sometimes holding masters degrees with job experiences that are “bought”. Result is many international students are putting up with extreme delays and most wealthier populace from third world countries buying their way out the PR with fake “points”. Add to that super visa, which gives parents and grandparents of anyone in Canada with permanent residence 10yrs visa. And finally add to that the “visitors” to Canada who end up claiming asylum, many of them crossing the border from US. In this year alone that number has surpassed 35k. Just talk to any immigration attorney and the reality on the ground is abysmal, many are taking wild advantage of lenient refugee program.
Result is an extremely backlogged immigration system, rising costs of housing, slow wage growth at entry levels.
Now back to The current liberal government and media Who have basically made it equivalent to racism to even talk about this issue. Very recently, a provincial immigration minister was vilified for bringing this issue to light saying “more immigrants beyond a certain cap would be a suicide”. Which is indeed true as the strained healthcare system already shows.
Immigrants tend to come to Canada for its tolerant populace and free healthcare (at least when compared to US). But lately this is coming to a questionable reality as healthcare quality and wait times have gotten so bad many people are seeking private healthcare if they can afford. Coupled with a cost of living nightmare in most big cities such as Toronto and Vancouver, it is not a positive outlook and it can seriously turn the populace anti immigration and make this a seriously political issue as in US.
Canada is also pretty selective about the skilled immigrants they let in, they don't do a random lottery or FIFO but have a points based system. You may argue about the parameters of how points are scored, but there's little doubt that it's better than a lottery.
It has little tech, manufacturing or other productive industry. It was actually among the first in mobile business, with Nortel & RIM. US and China took its lunch. The jobs seem to be mostly in government, finance and service.
On the other hand, housing in Canada is ridiculously unaffordable.
Frankly, it might be better off as a US state, considering it has low population and isn’t able to build a competitive economy.
It genuinely feels like the political class has abandoned its people and has sold out to special interest groups entirely. We import tons of TFW's (temporary foreign workers) to appease the corps to have cheap labour, and these TFW's are often treated terribly by the corps. As a first generation Canadian who is the child of refugees, I really do worry about the future of this country. I know tons of couples who are putting off having kids entirely because of the bleak economic picture in our major cities. We need immigration due to the low birthrate, but there's significant resentment from those who want kids and simply cannot afford them which is pushing down our numbers further.
[1] https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/ndp-calls-out-poilievre-and-...
Good for StatsCan for delineating their results and publishing their methodology. I see too many studies posted on HN with little to no methodology available.
But, I fear that this estimate will be misleadingly used as a right-wing talking point. I don’t think many individuals would consider non-permanent residents to be “immigrants”. I certainly wouldn’t think the right-wingers would lump them in with the immigrants they consider to be problematic.
It would be shrinking if not for immigration.