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0 pointsroenxi3y ago0 comments

Although grandparent's logic is faulty, I think it does go to an important point. They don't need 15 years warrantless storage of phone data. On anyone, including foreigners. If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late.

The powers these agencies have is far in excesses of what they need to do their jobs, and it is going to be abused. These aren't particularly upstanding people, they're the sort who think DHS/ICE represents an ideal that they are OK with.

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9 comments · 4 top-level

hutzlibu3y ago· 3 in thread

"If it takes them 15 years to realise they shouldn't have let someone over the border it is around 14 to 14.995 years too late."

Well, hypothetically some old data could be combined with some new data, to not let a potentially terrorist in NOW (or let them in, but supervised).

So more data to have is definitely useful for the agencies (if they can analyse it and do not drown in data).

And a total surveillance state would be even more effective, but for some reasons people does not want it. Maybe because power abuse is a real thing.

adra3y ago

If a group had infinite budgets to actually act on this data effectively and if you could actually ever prove that this data was used for said purpose, you're still violating the privacy of 99.999999 of the people who don't commit crimes. I'm all for collecting legitimate warranted wide access information about people with legitimate patterns of criminal behaviour. I'm all about collecting information about financial transactions as one form or another the proceeds of crime are traded into legitimacy in regulated channels (at least for now). I'm not ok collecting "whatever I feel like" for the reason "well because we legally can".

bushbaba3y ago

I just wish government agencies used data driven decision making vs feelings and intuition more of the time.

If there’s data showing a 15 year retention rate is worthwhile. Great. But I have nothing in front of me which states this objectively

gmadsen3y ago

if there is data suggesting it, it would be classified. the Government isn't in an equal information relationship with the population, nor can it be, to effectively use intel domestically and abroad.

just a counter-argument. I am not in favor of this obvious overreach. But I don't need data to tell me that.

JAlexoid3y ago· 2 in thread

It's called security theatre.

And 15 years is corruption driven, because now you are spending X millions. of taxpayer money to store this data.

thephyber3y ago

There are a few reasons why government would want to keep data for that long. Educated guess: playing the odds that currently encrypted data could be broken in the near future.

My primary argument isn’t security theater, although I do agree it applies. My argument is that no democracy / republic should assume that every resident/citizen is a potential criminal without some probable cause / particularized suspicion/ significant evidence. The larger the percentage of citizens who experience unjustified searches, the lower the institutional trust level falls. Eventually citizens stop trusting elections, courts, police, etc. then people start massive social panics on the assumption that everything government is corrupt.

autoexec3y ago

> It's called security theatre.

This isn't security theater. Security theater has to be in your face. Security theater is pageantry, but no substance. Security theater is has no impact on your safety, but makes people feel safer by providing the illusion of security.

This is substantial, has been being done without most Americans being aware of it, and it doesn't make anyone feel safer, but it still has a huge impact on your safety. It makes you less safe.

This is just a gross violation of our constitutional rights.

wombatpm3y ago

And I'm sure they will treat your data with the same regard they do government personell files and applications for security clearance.

woodruffw3y ago

I agree completely.

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