Microsoft, Apple and Others Withdrawal Support for SOPA (opens in new tab)

I understand what you are saying and will try to make future HN posts more accurate.

However, the BSA has been the only source of info as to what Apple, Microsoft, and most of the other association members have to say on SOPA. To my knowledge, none of the companies with BSA membership have made any independent statements[1] on the bill, and if so, certainly not on the scale Google did. * My hunch is that the BSA was created for a reason in addition to stopping copyright infringement: To represent these companies without their explicit support, just like any good lobbying company.

If we are considering evidence as to what these companies' positions are, the BSA is the only source we have, and the fact most of them stand to gain from software licenses.

[1] If anyone has seen a BSA member show opposition to SOPA in the past few weeks, I'd like to see.

*Edit

The BSA represents its members. How could that not possibly suggest complicit support?

I'm not saying you're wrong, but why then was the "Business Software Alliance" supporting SOPA in the first place? I don't think "knee-jerk support" covers it. There's a political reason there, surely.

If MS/Apple/whoever didn't like it, why weren't they publicly saying so?

Guilt by association. I didn't hear Apple or Microsoft threatening to withdraw funding for the BSA in light of this bill.

> it seems likely the BSA was engaging in knee jerk support and didn't consult its membership.

So, you're saying these companies aren't responsible for their actions because they stand behind an organization that they pay into? Must be nice. I wish I could haphazardly align myself with interest groups and just hope everything works out for me, but if it doesn't, have deniability.

Organizations such as the BSA, are business driven, and thus their policy follows where their money comes from. In this case, the BSA's source of money comes form it's members (Apple, Microsoft.. ect) So it's very likely that some, or all, members were behind this bill. Keep in mind that withdrawing support very well may be a political ploy, SOPA got TONS of negative press, so affiliations such as the BSA may have backed off simply in order to get the public off their back, re-group, and attempt to get a similar, yet less widely criticized bill through. Also, all these companies affiliated with the BSA have long histories of fighting piracy, as they license expensive software, so don't for a second think they are completely on the publics side here.

I don't think we need to dig into specific technicalities of this, especially with our limited knowledge of the hidden, behind-the-curtain power structures. This law was specifically designed to create an internet weapon of suppression of the unwanted. Apple could have use this to suppress jail breaking. Microsoft could use this to suppress Linux. Lobbyists could use this to suppress the Occupy movement. The powers that be as such could use this to destroy the power internet gives to people, first time in history. However for some reason, they have miscalculated - they did not expect this kind of organization, backlash and opposition. Now they are just trying to distance themselves to save what's left of their images.

The reason why they miscalculated is a mystery to me, perhaps they have realized they have let this "internet" thing go way too far, they cannot control it anymore using controlled disinformation techniques, and this was one of their last attempts to stop this trend.

Yes, it's really that bad out there. But it's getting better.

That sounds pretty plausible to me. Remember that the BSA is an organisation that is in constant danger of looking like a cartel. To avoid giving this impression too strongly, it's quite likely they have a fair degree of autonomy over copyright enforcement policy. After all, the whole reason the BSA exists is to keep its harassment of small businesses at arm's length from its members.

That being the case, it's not entirely surprising that the BSA would support anything that appears to make copyright enforcement easier for them. Nor is it particularly surprising that some of its members would find SOPA in conflict with their other interests and request that the BSA adopt a more nuanced position.

I guess that's just not as much fun as some of the other conspiracy theories I see in this thread.

Don't think for a minute that BSA members aren't acutely aware of what it does in their name. There was a lot of time during which MS, Apple and others could have come forward with a counter position on this.

BSA lobbies on behalf of member companies. The member companies know exactly what they are paying for. None of them are in the habit of throwing money away.

Let's distinguish two possible theories:

1) The underlying companies of the BSA (incl. AAPL and MSFT) were not really in favor of SOPA to begin with, and the public attention has lead them to correct the initial BSA position.

2) The underlying companies of the BSA were in favor of SOPA, which is why BSA supported SOPA. But in the face of public backlash they are backpedaling, because it is not valuable to support a bill that will lose regardless.

The second seems much more likely.

These companies wouldn't pay dues unless they were getting value from it. And I bet most have got an employee whose job it is to follow what these organizations are doing to make sure they're still worth the huge dues.

So no. I imagine almost everything done by a group like this is with the explicit approval, if not at the request, of almost all their members. But by not having to put their name on it they get an out in case it blows up in their face.

As I've said elsewhere, conservation of incompetence seems the likeliest explanation. The companies have better things to do, so no one in charge realizes that they're dues paying members of an organization that's advancing a truly moronic cause.

Until the press gets involved, then things get escalated and straightened back out.

Assuming that's in the neighborhood of truth, it highlights the importance of a press free from government and corporate interference.

  > It's like the rats scattering when the light turns on.

Don't insult the rats.

Well, it simply highlights the fact that whilst people may deceive themselves into thinking that what's good for companies is good for everyone (due to increasing of wealth and production), we realise that companies are in it for the people who run the companies, and if there so happens to be some downright abhorrent legislation that may benefit them, they'll support it until it becomes an issue where the net impact will be negative, due to bad press and the like.

It's morality by committee.

According to this page (http://www.bsa.org/country/BSA%20and%20Members/Our%20Members...) Apple is a member.

It's a reference to a previous article that specifically called out Microsoft and Apple as tacit SOPA supporters by virtue of their membership in the BSA.

An explanation would be appropriate if you're downvoting.

Or at least preventing change that wouldn't have been good. But of course, this thing will be back next year, probably chopped up into little pieces and inserted into other bills.

That's pretty cynical. If big business is backing out, SOPA is dead. The people don't want it, the politicians don't care either way so long as they get money.