Ask HN: How to deal with potential discrimination when applying for job

9 pointstwohaibei3y ago19 comments

Hello,

I'm a developer with 14+ years of experience. Im male, white, heterosexual and I have my photo in my CV.

Couple months ago I found a great job offer. I check all the required boxes, most of the "nice to haves". I applied, 24 days later i received canned response about "not moving forward". I didnt make anything out of it. Couple months passed, I see the offer is still up, accepting applicants.

I decided to check out the person who rejected me on linkedin and found that its not a white guy with "Diversity and Inclusion" in his title, and "Diversity and inclusion is one of my foundational pillars, and I'm driven to introduce more diversity to the tech world."

Without going into too much detail, I suspect my rejection might be caused by "diversity and inclusion" part of his title, not the "Technical Recruiter" part.

I have pretty good record of getting invited to all 2nd+ stages of recruitements even if my experience does not fit as perfect as this time, hence my surprise and investigation.

Any ideas how could i approach the subject to be at least evaluated when it comes to culture fit, technical abilities, teamwork, by people who are competent and will potentially work with me, instead of resume shuffler?

Write to a senior recruiter on linkedin and ask if he could evaluate my CV personally? Give up? Forge my CV to include non-white photo (or remove it altogether) and pretend that my camera is broken until i get past him? Is there any chance to get past this filter?

I would rather not start any relationship with a lie. Having said that, desperate times...

I really like the company, product (ive used it in the past), offer is very suitable for me, so i wouldnt want to pass it lightly.

Any advice appreciated. Thank you very much.

Ask HN: How to deal with potential discrimination when applying for job

9 pointstwohaibei3y ago19 comments

Hello,

I'm a developer with 14+ years of experience. Im male, white, heterosexual and I have my photo in my CV.

Without going into too much detail, I suspect my rejection might be caused by "diversity and inclusion" part of his title, not the "Technical Recruiter" part.

I have pretty good record of getting invited to all 2nd+ stages of recruitements even if my experience does not fit as perfect as this time, hence my surprise and investigation.

I would rather not start any relationship with a lie. Having said that, desperate times...

I really like the company, product (ive used it in the past), offer is very suitable for me, so i wouldnt want to pass it lightly.

Any advice appreciated. Thank you very much.

19 comments

19 comments · 9 top-level

sn0w_crash3y ago· 4 in thread

My advice is to go to another job and move on.

A lawsuit would take a long time and is very difficult to prove. Short of an insider to corroborate this, you’re probably SoL.

If they continue with these hiring practices (they will), they will have a tough time hiring and their business will suffer.

Find yourself a company that doesn’t hire based on skin color and be successful.

xen2xen13y ago

Interesting. The top comment for a descrimination claim is to "just move on"? If he were a black woman you'd never dare suggest that.

jstx13y ago

> If he were a black woman you'd never dare suggest that.

I would happily suggest to quickly move on after getting a generic "not moving forward" response to anyone regardless of their own race, gender, age etc.

What's the alternative?

metadat3y ago

It's still nearly impossible to prove. Even if they hadn't disclosed their race/gender, the advice will remain the same.

metadat3y ago

^ This.

Cast a wider net. It's just a numbers game.

And to be clear, in this instance you never reached the point of receiving an offer. It's just a job post, the job may not even really exist. All you know is that someone created the listing, beyond that it's meaningless.

morelandjs3y ago· 2 in thread

I suspect you are greatly over estimating how much this has disadvantaged you in the grand scheme of things. Move on, forget about it, and count your blessings.

What happened to you is wrong, but it’s also a daily occurrence for many people that are not white men.

armchairhacker3y ago

Also discrimination might not have even been why you didn't get the job. Maybe they filled the position or decided they just didn't need it, but didn't update on the site. Maybe they thought you weren't a good fit for some other reason. There are 1,000 reasons a job can reject you and with what you posted I wouldn't single it out to "diversity".

twohaibeiOP3y ago

The position is there on their website (and job boards) 3 months after my first application, I think its real.

bluWolf3y ago· 2 in thread

Are you sure you're not a transgender lesbian with gende r fluidity? You must think about that.

metadat3y ago

Please don't do that here.

rob_c3y ago

please read that whilst thinking of a black protagonist...

(to paraphrase a recent south-park episode)

sys_647383y ago· 1 in thread

Stop including photos. Reduce the amount of years you include in work history. Remove DOB or other identifying info. Some things you can do to increase chances and somethings you can’t. I don’t know what the solution is for rampant sexism and racism beyond saying those are toxic positions.

twohaibeiOP3y ago

> Reduce the amount of years you include in work history.

Is this not to suggest my age/avoid ageism, or not distract from the current experience?

drdo3y ago· 1 in thread

I would say just move on. There's little to be gained by pursuing this.

Additionally, why do you have a photo on your CV?

twohaibeiOP3y ago

Good question. Now that i think about it, i see no reason to do it. I assumed its standard practice.

lmarcos3y ago

Would be interesting as an experiment: send to the same recruiter a copy of your CV with a different picture and different name. Make sure you add a gender that it's not that common for the given invented name (e.g., invented name = Robert Langdon, invented gender = female). Keep the rest of your CV the same (perhaps shuffle it a bit, make non-core changes, change the font and layout).

If the recruiter is moving forward with your application, then you have a pretty clear proof of discrimination (now, what's the reason for the discrimination? No idea, but it's based on the diff between your original CV and the modified one).

tunap3y ago

For various reasons, in the US to qualify for tax advantages and guv contracts, some firms are required to post any & all opening for X days/weeks/months. Often enough, if it's a good job, they already have their future hire decided before the post goes live.

As to the discrimination possibility: would you want to be a part of that environment, if it were true? Well intentioned or obfuscated toxicity is still toxic.

As always, YMMV.

soueuls3y ago

Discriminations should be legal.

You can either try to remove your picture and reapply through a different channel, or move on and apply elsewhere.

This company seems to have different values.

yuppie_scum3y ago

I think putting your photo on your resume is weird in general

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

19 comments

19 comments · 9 top-level

sn0w_crash3y ago· 4 in thread

My advice is to go to another job and move on.

A lawsuit would take a long time and is very difficult to prove. Short of an insider to corroborate this, you’re probably SoL.

If they continue with these hiring practices (they will), they will have a tough time hiring and their business will suffer.

Find yourself a company that doesn’t hire based on skin color and be successful.

xen2xen13y ago

Interesting. The top comment for a descrimination claim is to "just move on"? If he were a black woman you'd never dare suggest that.

jstx13y ago

> If he were a black woman you'd never dare suggest that.

I would happily suggest to quickly move on after getting a generic "not moving forward" response to anyone regardless of their own race, gender, age etc.

What's the alternative?

metadat3y ago

It's still nearly impossible to prove. Even if they hadn't disclosed their race/gender, the advice will remain the same.

metadat3y ago

^ This.

Cast a wider net. It's just a numbers game.

morelandjs3y ago· 2 in thread

I suspect you are greatly over estimating how much this has disadvantaged you in the grand scheme of things. Move on, forget about it, and count your blessings.

What happened to you is wrong, but it’s also a daily occurrence for many people that are not white men.

armchairhacker3y ago

twohaibeiOP3y ago

The position is there on their website (and job boards) 3 months after my first application, I think its real.

bluWolf3y ago· 2 in thread

Are you sure you're not a transgender lesbian with gende r fluidity? You must think about that.

metadat3y ago

Please don't do that here.

rob_c3y ago

please read that whilst thinking of a black protagonist...

(to paraphrase a recent south-park episode)

sys_647383y ago· 1 in thread

twohaibeiOP3y ago

> Reduce the amount of years you include in work history.

Is this not to suggest my age/avoid ageism, or not distract from the current experience?

drdo3y ago· 1 in thread

I would say just move on. There's little to be gained by pursuing this.

Additionally, why do you have a photo on your CV?

twohaibeiOP3y ago

Good question. Now that i think about it, i see no reason to do it. I assumed its standard practice.

lmarcos3y ago

tunap3y ago

As to the discrimination possibility: would you want to be a part of that environment, if it were true? Well intentioned or obfuscated toxicity is still toxic.

As always, YMMV.

soueuls3y ago

Discriminations should be legal.

You can either try to remove your picture and reapply through a different channel, or move on and apply elsewhere.

This company seems to have different values.

yuppie_scum3y ago

I think putting your photo on your resume is weird in general

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse