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0 pointsjnsaff23y ago0 comments

I wish you would expand and clarify the point you are trying to make. Currently it sounds like you are angry at a group of enthusiasts.

I think for me and the OP it’s quite clear that optimizations can be made on production and consumption side. And in their circumstances financial reality says that increasing production is much cheaper, while possibly providing extra cash that would enable investment for reducing consumption, which in turn would lead to more income.

0 comments

dmitriid3y ago

> I wish you would expand and clarify the point you are trying to make.

The problem with people enthusiastically proposing renewables as the cheap solution to our energy needs is the thousand "little" details like the one above. Whose only mention is in the comments like "your math is wrong, invest in insulation".

No. The math isn't wrong. Bo, the consumption is correct and shouldn't "should be lower". Because it's directly indicative of the reality.

Yes, you have a couple of enthusiasts who can sink another X kiloeuro into rebuilding their house. For the absolute vast majority of users it's not a viable option.

So yes, the answer to "PV energy is almost enough in summer and not nearly enough in winter" isn't a dismissive "you're doing insulation wrong".

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32201039

beebeepka3y ago

Venting is fine but but is there a point you are trying to make? Besides the "some people blah blah" strawman?

I shouldn't put solar panels on my roof because it would not fix someone else's problems? What kind of logic is that?

magic_hamster3y ago

I think they're trying to say that insulation (and probably other factors) is not just one person's problem but an issue of a huge scale, which is true. If solar works for you, then that's great, but for a lot of people (the majority?) it wouldn't work, or at least not without spending a very large amount of money to retrofit your house for it.

I think it's a good point even if stated quite poorly.

beebeepka3y ago

Let me put it this way: is me having solar panels making things worse for "the majority"? If so, how?

Because it sounded like the usual trope that if a solution does not fix all problems for all humans everywhere, than it it sucks and the person doing what they can is a naive fool, if not a straight up villain.

1 more reply

MrMan3y ago

Cost is not really a valid reason not to pursue renewable. We need to switch to renewables no matter the cost, so as many people can survive as possible, and limit mass extinctions

krageon3y ago

> Cost is not really a valid reason not to pursue renewable.

If you have a money printer in the basement or free materials and slave labour, sure. In every other case it quite simply is.

> We need to switch to renewables no matter the cost

All true, but not relevant - we live in the real world where we make practical decisions. One of the aspects of that is not spending more than you have (for example so you can still eat).

nl3y ago

Well in Germany at least they have legislative requirements for insulation on new builds (and have for years).

So that's an actual solution to the problem!

querez3y ago

true, except most people don't live in new builds. As explained in other comments here, adding insulation to old buildings is highly non-trivial.

Helmut100013y ago

Thanks for the nice summary! I couldn't phrase it better.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse

0 comments

dmitriid3y ago

> I wish you would expand and clarify the point you are trying to make.

No. The math isn't wrong. Bo, the consumption is correct and shouldn't "should be lower". Because it's directly indicative of the reality.

Yes, you have a couple of enthusiasts who can sink another X kiloeuro into rebuilding their house. For the absolute vast majority of users it's not a viable option.

So yes, the answer to "PV energy is almost enough in summer and not nearly enough in winter" isn't a dismissive "you're doing insulation wrong".

Also https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32201039

beebeepka3y ago

Venting is fine but but is there a point you are trying to make? Besides the "some people blah blah" strawman?

I shouldn't put solar panels on my roof because it would not fix someone else's problems? What kind of logic is that?

magic_hamster3y ago

I think it's a good point even if stated quite poorly.

beebeepka3y ago

Let me put it this way: is me having solar panels making things worse for "the majority"? If so, how?

1 more reply

MrMan3y ago

Cost is not really a valid reason not to pursue renewable. We need to switch to renewables no matter the cost, so as many people can survive as possible, and limit mass extinctions

krageon3y ago

> Cost is not really a valid reason not to pursue renewable.

If you have a money printer in the basement or free materials and slave labour, sure. In every other case it quite simply is.

> We need to switch to renewables no matter the cost

All true, but not relevant - we live in the real world where we make practical decisions. One of the aspects of that is not spending more than you have (for example so you can still eat).

nl3y ago

Well in Germany at least they have legislative requirements for insulation on new builds (and have for years).

So that's an actual solution to the problem!

querez3y ago

true, except most people don't live in new builds. As explained in other comments here, adding insulation to old buildings is highly non-trivial.

Helmut100013y ago

Thanks for the nice summary! I couldn't phrase it better.

j / k navigate · click thread line to collapse